100NL AQ turned TPGK

[wrkingtobegreat]

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I agree with taking it down pf + taking it down with a c-bet but I think that winning a pot at showdown with that hand will not happen very often in this spot? So you've turned AQ into a bluff no? I am also really interested to hear more about this!

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I have some thoughts on the subject. I agree with berg on the benefits of re-raising. We probably have the best hand but we like to take it down preflop because still we'll miss the flop 2/3 of the time so by re-raising and making him fold we; a) don't risk getting outflopped by a worse hand and; b) don't risk folding the best hand on the flop. Also, if we get called a c-bet is really profitable against most players. The greatest reason to re-raise is to be able to take down the pot on the flop (or preflop) without flopping a hand. PLaying oop without the initiative will make us fold the best hand way too often. I think calling preflop must be combined with check/raising a lot of ragged flop to be a consideration.

If we call preflop we're turning it into a guessing game postflop, villain is probably on a wide range (Ax being only a small part of it). We'll rarely flop a hand worth check/raising the flop with the intention of felting it, so when we hit we'll most often just check/call the flop. Now let's say the flop is AT8, he bets we call. Turn is a 9. What's our plan here? He could easily have AA/AK/AT/A9/A8/QJ/TT/99/88. If we check, do we call a bet? How often will he 2nd barrel? Since we're oop we're in a tough spot where we might be the sucker paying off or getting bluffed (or even valuebet) off the best hand.

Now this last example is a really tough board, but there will be several flops where we're in a tough spot like this. My point being, even though we might dominate him preflop, calling and playing oop might still put us in trouble.


Edit: This was ment to address playing vs an unknown.

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Seems like your overemphasizing taking the pot preflop. It will be counterbalanced by the fact that every single time we get reraised here, we have to fold, losing like 12BB each time. Plus, when our continuation bets get reraised we have to automuck and when they get called we are in perfect spew situations.

[rakes.a.beach]

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*grunch* Didn't ur mother ever tell u not to make it 16bb with AQ?

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nope. I make it 16 BB when 3-bet from blinds.


The real question on my hand is the turn play. C/F seems really weak. Leading push will only get better hands to call. so is Check/push the best line?

[wrkingtobegreat]

I didn't notice that you were in the BB, my apologies. Your raise is more justified. Check pushing is your best bet. If your calling a big river bet anyway it might bet some better two pair to fold. CHECK POOOSH.

[Nick Royale]

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I agree with taking it down pf + taking it down with a c-bet but I think that winning a pot at showdown with that hand will not happen very often in this spot? So you've turned AQ into a bluff no? I am also really interested to hear more about this!

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I have some thoughts on the subject. I agree with berg on the benefits of re-raising. We probably have the best hand but we like to take it down preflop because still we'll miss the flop 2/3 of the time so by re-raising and making him fold we; a) don't risk getting outflopped by a worse hand and; b) don't risk folding the best hand on the flop. Also, if we get called a c-bet is really profitable against most players. The greatest reason to re-raise is to be able to take down the pot on the flop (or preflop) without flopping a hand. PLaying oop without the initiative will make us fold the best hand way too often. I think calling preflop must be combined with check/raising a lot of ragged flop to be a consideration.

If we call preflop we're turning it into a guessing game postflop, villain is probably on a wide range (Ax being only a small part of it). We'll rarely flop a hand worth check/raising the flop with the intention of felting it, so when we hit we'll most often just check/call the flop. Now let's say the flop is AT8, he bets we call. Turn is a 9. What's our plan here? He could easily have AA/AK/AT/A9/A8/QJ/TT/99/88. If we check, do we call a bet? How often will he 2nd barrel? Since we're oop we're in a tough spot where we might be the sucker paying off or getting bluffed (or even valuebet) off the best hand.

Now this last example is a really tough board, but there will be several flops where we're in a tough spot like this. My point being, even though we might dominate him preflop, calling and playing oop might still put us in trouble.


Edit: This was ment to address playing vs an unknown.

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Seems like your overemphasizing taking the pot preflop. It will be counterbalanced by the fact that every single time we get reraised here, we have to fold, losing like 12BB each time. Plus, when our continuation bets get reraised we have to automuck and when they get called we are in perfect spew situations.

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Taking the pot down preflop is a good thing, but as I pointed out the most important reason to re-raise is to take it down on the flop. Either by having the best hand on the flop, betting and winning or by making a better hand like a mid PP to fold against our c-bet.

My main point is that if you're calling preflop you need to do it with the plan on winning postflop a decent ammount even if you miss the flop.

We won't often get 4-bet preflop, if villain folds preflop that's obviously +EV, a c-bet will be +EV against most players. Sure, when we don't win the hand we'll lose more but we'll win the pot much more often by re-raising preflop.

[Imrahil]

c/f

[kindju]

Thanks for the replies Nick. I definitely need to put more thought in my 3-bet strategy and the points you've made were useful. Sometimes we get so used to a certain play (such as 3-betting AQ on the BB a button raise) that we forget the reasons why we are doing it.
Sorry for the highjack rakes.a.beach.