Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods

[da_fume]

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The one thing that pisses me off is that an attempt to muck should be treated as a muck and the hand should be dead. Also, a guy moves all in with A7 on a 995 board into someone who has J9 but they have to show the cards to prevent collusion?

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huh? it's a general rule to prevent collusion. it has nothing to do with this specific hand. it's a rule.

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Well who is the one who decides if there is collusion or not? How can you determine if it's a retard pushing wiht A7 and running into trips or if it's two guys working together to make sure they both stay alive in a tournament?

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God, shut up. Why do you insist on confusing the situation. The rule is there to prevent collusion, not to catch it ('Lucky You' actually shows this collusion in action, hilariously and unintentionally). You can't fold a winning hand when you are all in, that's what it is supposed to prevent. Whether this has any actual effect on the tournament scene is debatable, but that is the intent.

[Imrahil]

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JC Tran might get more sympathy from me if he had said something about the "dead hand" before he got sucked out on. He wasn't interested in his interpretation of the rules until after he lost. Then, he tried to use his interpretation of the rules to win a pot soembody else's cards had won.

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Well it doesn't matter unless the guy w/ A7 wins.

[Rob121]

so you think even though its the rule it shouldn't matter. that is pretty dumb.
what if you went to flip you cards face up and they somehow flipped face down then you would be crying like a little girl that you didn't muck them.

[Dynasty]

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JC Tran might get more sympathy from me if he had said something about the "dead hand" before he got sucked out on. He wasn't interested in his interpretation of the rules until after he lost. Then, he tried to use his interpretation of the rules to win a pot soembody else's cards had won.

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Well it doesn't matter unless the guy w/ A7 wins.

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That's the point. He's trying to use what he thinks the rule is to win a pot his cards didn't earn.

Some people in this thread are upset that the unknown player was saved by the interpretation of a rule. How is that different than what Tran is trying to do after all the cards are dealt?

I get the impression Tran thought he was genuinely right. Therefore, he wasn't angle-shooting. But, angle-shooting is all about using strict interpretations of the rules to win pots you otherwise wouldn't be entitled to. Tran losing a showdown and only afterwards trying to use his rule interpretation to get the pot is typical angle-shooting.

[0524432]

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The one thing that pisses me off is that an attempt to muck should be treated as a muck and the hand should be dead. Also, a guy moves all in with A7 on a 995 board into someone who has J9 but they have to show the cards to prevent collusion?

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huh? it's a general rule to prevent collusion. it has nothing to do with this specific hand. it's a rule.

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Well who is the one who decides if there is collusion or not? How can you determine if it's a retard pushing wiht A7 and running into trips or if it's two guys working together to make sure they both stay alive in a tournament?

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Exactly. There's no thought behind it, it's simple spew.

[GSykes]

Another reason why tournaments are stupid

[dlpnyc21]

hey as people noticed in the video the guy inexplicably hands jc "some" chips. jc actually starts shuffling them as they are dealing out the hand LOL. did the guy get those chips back? There seems to be no way to know, but I have the sneaking suspicion that jc prolly scooped at least those chips and didn't give them back...maybe there is some justice?

by the way, in tournament poker both hands must be exposed, so technically a rule would have had to have been violated in order for jc to win. i think it's much better to have zero rule violations than 1, thus turning the hand over was the right decision.

dlpnyc21

[Apathy]

the floor certaintly made the right ruling here. Its honestly a little disturbing to me that JC would try to get this pot he has to know he doesnt deserve both according to the rules (which are there for good reason in a tournament) and the spirit of the game imo.

Someone who maybe doesnt play tons of poker goes to muck there hand that maybe they dont realise has outs or w/e and the dealer saves the hand... thats a good thing!

trying to trick people who dont know the rules in this manner is NOT part of the game imo and getting mad that a mistake a player of this kind almost made is not going to give you the pot when you shouldnt get it anyways (trust me he knows the rule) is lame.

[0524432]

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huh? it's a general rule to prevent collusion. it has nothing to do with this specific hand. it's a rule.

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Just so. I don't think anybody believes there was attempted collusion, but were two players colluding, this is exactly how they'd do it. [1]

The dealer probably should have called the floor first, but the outcome is the same no matter what. If the floorman gets there, it goes like this:

Floor: "Are those his cards?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "You sure?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "Then turn 'em over; they're live."

Mike Ward made exactly the right ruling, and anything else starts you down a dangerous and slippery slope. It was just one of a gajillion bad beats at the Foxwoods that day. Next case.

I agree, BTW, that you should probably handle it differently in a cash game (clear intention to muck face down should be respected), but that's completely and totally irrelevant here.

Regards, Lee

[1] Erm, modulo the fact that the guy would probably bury his cards in the muck quickly so they couldn't be retrieved.

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FYI: I was personally involved in a hand at Foxwoods, 1-2nl cash game. Where I moved all in at the river on a 4 flushed board, only to have the villain show the 35h for a straight flush wheel and say in anger "I had you til the [censored] river". He then flipped his cards FACE UP and threw them towards the muck.

Instead of the dealer killing his hand, loudmouth nit at the other end of the table yells out, "you have a straight flush". At which point villain begins to pull back his turned up cards and begin placing his barrels into the pot.

Dealer called floor. Floor called another floor. Floor x 2 decided hand was live. Monkey playing 35h who doesn't even realize when he picks up a gutshot straight flush draw on the turn and mucks when he binks river, is shipped the $$.


I posted this same story a few months ago only to be told that the ruling was correct. Cash game? lolFlipament? Explain please.

[johnnyrocket]

yea thats awful, this makes me sick they rule that the winning hand