KJs river flush vs Leatherass

[FionnMac]

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hi recallme

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lol

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[thejerkface]

If you're not gonna get the money in when you make the 2nd nut flush, then just fold the flop.

[jfish]

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you need to retool your game if you aren't shoving here, simple as that.

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if your game is so transparent that he can fold low-medium flushes here then you really do. also, calling here just destroys your metagame and youll have a really hard time bluffing in the future.

[Redgrape]

I was just discussing this with ur friend and i agree now it seems like raise/fold to a shove.

[xorbie]

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you need to retool your game if you aren't shoving here, simple as that.

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if your game is so transparent that he can fold a pair of dueces here then you really do. also, calling here just destroys your metagame and youll have a really hard time bluffing in the future.

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[sauce123]

my head hurts

[tomsOn]

I'm a friend of Jamie217 and this thread annoys me, because it gives me the impression 2+2ers are for the most part robots, who are not willing to stop and give some things a bit more thought, but instead give standard, 'no-brainer' lines.

Normally I shouldn't be mad about this, but when you give thrash advice in a cocky, authoritative, patronising manner it looks ridiculous.

The points made in Jamies last post were actually mine. Leatherass is capable of good laydowns. His calling range when we push the river are only flushes. The highest flush that we beat here is 8s7s, since it's impossible for him to have Q high flush given the cards here (we exclude A,K,J,T,9), so what can he have, Q8s? I don't think so. He's very capable of folding a small flush here. Also he doesn't always bet the flop with small flushes since the Ace there is very likely to hit someone. Axs is definitely a part of his range, because it's congruent with how he played.

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If you're not gonna get the money in when you make the 2nd nut flush, then just fold the flop.

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Ridiculous. Yeah, lets abstract from reads, timing, turn and river action, pot size, ranges etc etc. Lets base our decision on a flop call. In fact we should actually go back a bit more and fold pre-flop just because we played this hand conservatively when we hit. Yeah, lets leave the game, because we're making reads instead of acting like robots.

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if your game is so transparent that he can fold low-medium flushes

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If your river raise isn't transparent to a very good, thinking player that means you're playing crazy. Seriously. What kind of range can you put a guy on when he pushes river, besides a flush? A bluff? Come on.

I'm not saying a call is best. In fact I didn't give half of my thoughts on this hand. My point is this hand isn't obvious stuff and that's why Jamie217 posted it. At least give these ideas some thought, before you berate my friend. At least try.

[BobboFitos]

you are scared money

[Parlay Slow]

lol at this thread

[xorbie]

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If your river raise isn't transparent to a very good, thinking player that means you're playing crazy. Seriously. What kind of range can you put a guy on when he pushes river, besides a flush? A bluff? Come on.

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'LOL'