2/4 Top pair + gutshot facing a lot of action on draw heavy board

[sccrneo]

$2/$4 Limit Hold Em at Canterybury Card Club

This was a live game at a B&M so no hand history. 9 person table. The table was fairly loose, probably averaged 5 people seeing the flop. A couple of lags but mostly calling stations.

SB is a TAG. Knows what he is doing.
BB is a LAG. Likes to throw in the occasional preflop raise with A-rag and the such. Will bet a lot of flops when checked to.
UTG was new to the table but didnt seem to be very good. Called down and wasnt able to beat bottom pair, etc.
UTG+1 was also new and was buddies with UTG and MP+2. Didnt seem very good. Pretty much the same as UTG
MP was a calling station. Continually called to the river and mucked a loser. Had previously runner-runnered me twice.
MP+1 was a lag. Would raise and reraise after flop with nothing. Prone to bluffing but would play a good hand the same way. Was hard to put him on a hand.
MP+2 was new but did not seem very good.
CO was new to the table but seemed to be an ok player.
Hero is the button.

Preflop Hero has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Two or three callers, Hero raises, SB reraises, three callers, Hero calls.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (~18 SBs, 5 players)
SB bets, a caller, UTG+1 raises, another caller, Hero 3-bets, 3 calls.

Turn 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (~15BBs, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, CO raises, Hero???

At this point, is the pot big enough to just call down. Also, can I count my Ace as possibly good or at least an Ace as an out. I figure I had maybe 4 outs which makes this a close decision. With the action, my initial thought was that I was behind and my Ace outs were no good. But the pot was big enough that I really didnt know what the best play was. Thoughts?

[Befolder]

Any chance that MP1 is making a play on his buddy before him who bet? Just another motivator for him to raise, but not necessarily relevant.

I'm still worried about sb personally. He could have hit very large on that flop w/ a tight SB 3 betting range especially assuming all those folks still being in.

Our hand is vulnerable and possibly behind, but I call here, hating it and worried about having to put more in on the turn.

Edit: After actually calculating our outs, which is hard enough, we might have a fold here, but that assumes we are behind, which we probably are at least 70% of the time.

[Big Folder]

I fold the turn.

On the flop are you going for a free card play?

[threads13]

I don't think there is really any point in 3-betting here. It isn't for protection and with the SB still to act on your left I don't imagine there is too much value in raising here. Having said that you are getting 24:2 or 12:1 on a call and there is a small chance you are ahead. I go ahead and call and reevaluate on the turn.

I think you turn you can find a fold with the CO coming alive and the SB still being on your left.

[sccrneo]

I think the reraise on the flop might be a little much. But I dont remember for sure if it was a raise or a reraise. It would make more sense for it to be a raise but Im not really sure which it was.

[Big Folder]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reraise on the flop might be a little much. But I dont remember for sure if it was a raise or a reraise. It would make more sense for it to be a raise but Im not really sure which it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, given the read on SB you can't feel good about your hand right now. Given his 3-bet his range could be AK, AA, KK, QQ, AQ, maybe KQ which have you beat. What he would 3-bet and be losing with is JJ, TT. I doubt he 3-bets preflop with AJ in his position. Maybe he has AJs or A10s.

The flop action kind of tosses out JJ and TT. Thats a very scary board for those cards and he has to pray for a 4-card straight.

If there was a raise you have the odds to call, the question is should you 3-bet? You said it was too much, but thats why I wanted to know if you tried to do a free card play. This is tough since SB is aggressive.

Whether this is a good place to try a free card play is questionable, but it would be one reason to raise. You do have TPGK and a straight draw. Given his range I don't think you are ahead here though, especially if he calls, so you basically have a straight draw with a very slight chance of being ahead. If the free card play would work then I'd do it. You're paying 1.5-bets to see the river which would cost you 2bets to see the river. If you just want to see the turn then call. But I'd be very worried about SB raising. This is a tough spot.

[milesdyson]

Looks like a fold. I can't see CO having anything other than KJ. Live players would never do this with AT, TT, or A2. Also, UTG has something good usually. I think you're drawing to 1.5 outs (3 but to half the pot) or less (if someone else has another J).

[sccrneo]

That was pretty much my thoughts, although I could also see a two pair/set hand thrown into his range.