Used to feel like I had a good feel for the game ...

Proofrock · #1 05-14-2007, 07:05 PM

I've moved to $2/4 somewhat recently from $1/2. I mostly 4-table 6-max games, and the biggest difference seems to be that players are much more aggressive preflop, and I need help adjusting.

My stats are sort of atypical for a winning player -- 21/13 or so, mostly because I (1) like to call a lot more than 3bet, especially in position, and (2) I complete a lot from the SB and call a lot of better than average hands that I don't want to fold but don't want to 3bet from the blinds -- mid-suited connectors and PPs (and of course the occasional big hand to satisfy Shania).

What suggestions do you have for adjusting to the aggressive preflop play in midstakes online games? Just to give me an idea, assume you've just sat down but have Villain in CO at 25/20 thanks to data-mining. What's your standard 3betting range OTB? In the BB? Let's say instead you raise in the CO, and this same player 3bets you OTB. What's your standard 4-bet range? Calling range? What if Villain is BB instead?

Thanks.

Proofrock · #2 05-15-2007, 12:06 AM

Nothing on this? I'm not sure where else to ask the question except here, since it doesn't really apply as much to SSNL. If there are any good threads that already address this I'd love to be pointed to them.

Game_On · #3 05-15-2007, 12:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've moved to $2/4 somewhat recently from $1/2. I mostly 4-table 6-max games, and the biggest difference seems to be that players are much more aggressive preflop, and I need help adjusting.

My stats are sort of atypical for a winning player -- 21/13 or so, mostly because I (1) like to call a lot more than 3bet, especially in position, and (2) I complete a lot from the SB and call a lot of better than average hands that I don't want to fold but don't want to 3bet from the blinds -- mid-suited connectors and PPs (and of course the occasional big hand to satisfy Shania).

What suggestions do you have for adjusting to the aggressive preflop play in midstakes online games? Just to give me an idea, assume you've just sat down but have Villain in CO at 25/20 thanks to data-mining. What's your standard 3betting range OTB? In the BB? Let's say instead you raise in the CO, and this same player 3bets you OTB. What's your standard 4-bet range? Calling range? What if Villain is BB instead?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJo+, 88+, KQs for button vs Co Raiser

A2steaksauce · #4 05-15-2007, 12:49 AM

for starters, the standard advice is to play tighter than normal, especially preflop, until you get comfortable with the new level. start with only 3betting premium hands, and calling 3bets with premium hands. you can also cut down the number of tables you play on and watch the 3betting patterns of the other players when you're not in the hand. more than anything though, you need to develop your own feel for the game, and you can only do that by playing.

freemoney · #5 05-15-2007, 12:53 AM

i think 21/13 is bad. the 2 numbers should be way closer to eachother.

fitnessfreak · #6 05-15-2007, 01:02 AM

go through your pokertracker stats using the filter. look at your net winnings with sc's and other medium strength hands oop. i think you will find that cold calling oop with these types of hands is costing you a fair bit of money. i agree that with pf stats like yours there are probably some decent sized leaks that could be quite easily fixed and end up saving you a lot of bb's.

re. the more specific questions you asked, i think this comes down more to feel and what range you feel comfortable 3betting and 4betting with. plus, i dont rly wanna spell out my pf strategy for other party reg;s to see [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

AceCR9 · #7 05-15-2007, 01:53 AM

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i think 21/13 is bad. the 2 numbers should be way closer to eachother.

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sorta true but this is too basic

at a higher limit you will no longer be able to easily outplay people in position(when you call their PFR). if you play this same style against better players you're going to struggle most likely.

if your playing on stars/ftp where the majority of players play around a 20/17 style work on developing a very different style- either go LAG or play like a TAG nit. what you don't want to be doing is playing a very similar style against better players(or some better players, some worse).

thenutz9 · #8 05-15-2007, 03:27 AM

Calling with suited connectors from the blinds is a leak as you move up. I suggest raising just a few more hands and calling with a few less. Get to around 19/15 stats should help avoid difficult situations. Also, I think everyone experiences some difficulty when they first move up levels. Give it some time to adjust. gl

Proofrock · #9 05-15-2007, 06:29 AM

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at a higher limit you will no longer be able to easily outplay people in position(when you call their PFR). if you play this same style against better players you're going to struggle most likely.

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Certainly. I struggle most with situations where I don't really want to fold and don't want to 3bet. For example, TAG/LAG raises in MP with a range of SCs/PPs/big broadway cards/whatever, and I'm OTB with 77 or T9s. I don't want to fold because these hands I think show a positive expectation vs. the opponents opening range when I have position, but 3betting seems bad since it kills the implied odds I have against the stronger hands in Villain's range and folds out the weaker hands where I could often win a medium/small pot postflop.

[ QUOTE ]
if your playing on stars/ftp where the majority of players play around a 20/17 style work on developing a very different style- either go LAG or play like a TAG nit. what you don't want to be doing is playing a very similar style against better players(or some better players, some worse).

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Could you explain this further to me? I don't really understand, except that by doing so I'm expecting them not to adjust as well to my style as I could adapt to theirs?

Proofrock · #10 05-15-2007, 06:41 AM

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i think 21/13 is bad. the 2 numbers should be way closer to eachother.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I've been told for a long time, and I assume everybody else is probably right because nobody who is a solid winning player on these boards seems to have stats like these. On the other hand, I've been reasonably successful from micro-small stakes NL, and though I've only put in about 20k hands (yes, I know, small sample) of $2/4, I was winning at about 3.4 PTBB/100 until a pretty horrible stretch over the last few days wiped out most of my $2/4 winnings.

FWIW, I think most of the skewing of these stats I think comes in my blind play. I complete my SB a lot in limped / B vs. B pots, and almost never open-fold the SB, so while I'm something like 19/17 when I'm not a blind, my blind play changes everything. My BB/Hand for blinds is -0.1 -- not sure how this compares to other winning regulars, I'd be quite curious to find out what BB/SB stats and BB/hand are for the "either blind" filter. If anybody wanted to post them / PM them to me I'd be interested in hearing it.