5-10 cent PL OHL on Full Tilt

[The Donator]

Here's another. I consider this a total whiff and move on. But I'm folding A LOT of hands postflop and the blinds are eating me alive.

Full Tilt Poker Game #4292990571: Table Washburn - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 13:22:42 ET - 2007/11/25
Seat 1: Player1 ($10.40)
Seat 2: Player2 ($11.45), is sitting out
Seat 3: Player3 ($3.85)
Seat 4: Player4 ($4.55)
Seat 5: Player5 ($5.15)
Seat 6: Player6 ($6)
Seat 7: Player7 ($10.70), is sitting out
Seat 8: HERO ($9.40)
Seat 9: Player8 ($10.35)
HERO posts the small blind of $0.05
Player8 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [5s 5h As 2s]
Player1 calls $0.10
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
HERO calls $0.05
Player8 checks
*** FLOP *** [Ac Kd 2c]
HERO checks
Player8 checks
Player1 checks
*** TURN *** [Ac Kd 2c] [Kc]
HERO checks
Player8 checks
Player1 checks
*** RIVER *** [Ac Kd 2c Kc] [6c]
HERO checks
Player8 checks
Player1 checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO shows [5s 5h As 2s] two pair, Aces and Kings, for high
Player8 shows [3c Td 7d Qh] a pair of Kings, for high and 7,6,3,2,A, for low
Player1 shows [3d Qs Qd 7c] two pair, Kings and Queens, for high and 7,6,3,2,A, for low
HERO wins the high pot ($0.15) with two pair, Aces and Kings
Player8 ties for the low pot ($0.10) with 7,6,3,2,A
Player1 ties for the low pot ($0.05) with 7,6,3,2,A

[The Donator]

Again, I have no idea where I stand after not really hitting this flop.


Full Tilt Poker Game - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L -

Seat 1: Player1 ($9.10)
Seat 2: Player2 ($11.30)
Seat 3: Player3 ($4.75)
Seat 4: Player4 ($4.70)
Seat 5: Player5 ($3.95)
Seat 6: Player6 ($5.80)
Seat 7: Player7 ($10)
Seat 8: HERO ($10)
Seat 9: Player8 ($11.50)
Player6 has 5 seconds left to act
Player6 posts the small blind of $0.05
Player7 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Ah Th 4h As]
HERO calls $0.10
Player8 calls $0.10
Player1 raises to $0.20
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player7 calls $0.10
HERO calls $0.10
Player8 calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [7h 2d 5s]
Player7 checks
HERO checks
Player8 has 15 seconds left to act
Player8 checks
Player1 bets $0.10
Player7 folds
HERO calls $0.10
Player8 calls $0.10
*** TURN *** [7h 2d 5s] [9s]
HERO checks
Player8 checks
Player1 bets $1.15
HERO folds
Player8 has 15 seconds left to act
Player8 folds
Uncalled bet of $1.15 returned to Player1
Player1 mucks
Player1 wins the pot ($1.05)

[The Donator]

I'll add this: My basic strategy is to play A-2-5-6 or A-3-4-6 hands and try to flop monsters. Or A-2-7-8, like the books (Zee, etc.) and flop 4-5-6 or hit nut low and a flush draw, but I either never hit those or flop part of it and get quartered when my high doesn't come on the turn or river. I used to play 1-2 cents at Stars to learn, and beat those games up pretty good, running $12 into $315 over a year or so, but I get shot down in the 5-10 cent games.

[davebreal]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a typical hand for me. I get solid wheel cards and a medium pair, then the fop hits by wheel cards, not the pair, and I have no idea where I am in the hand and have to fold. Or should I be aggressive here?

[/ QUOTE ]

2488 are not solid wheel cards. statistics have shown that AA A2 and A3 are the most profitable O8 hands (in this precise order)... 23xx is usually unprofitable. 24xx is certainly not profitable in general at full-ring.

bottom 2 pair on or any 2 pair on a 3-low flop is playing to get your money back at best. this is a clear fold.

unfortunately, the "recent" O8 archives seem to be unaccessible, lots of good reads there on stuff like starting hands and profitability.

[davebreal]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another. I consider this a total whiff and move on. But I'm folding A LOT of hands postflop and the blinds are eating me alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

you need to be be selectively aggressive with premium/good hands... otherwise you will always get blinded out.

if necessary, drop back down to minimum stakes and starting building pots and semibluffing until you get comfortable with it.

[davebreal]

[ QUOTE ]
but I either never hit those or flop part of it and get quartered when my high doesn't come on the turn or river

[/ QUOTE ]

PLO8 is not entirely a waiting game, it's also a game of making things happen and creating opportunities for yourself. Limit O8 is more of a waiting game... hell you might even want to try that for a while.

in one of the hands you posted, you limped in early position with AA4 suited, and flat-called a raise. that is a MAJOR leak.

try observing winning players, and do what they do. it's that easy.

[The Donator]

>in one of the hands you posted, you limped in early position with AA4 suited, and flat-called a raise. that is a MAJOR leak.

i should reraise there? how much? pots get big awfull fast in this game. what if the flop comes garbage for me like 8-9-10, which happens most of the time? do i shut it down after putting more money into the pot?

[rando]

You've got a huuuge paranoia complex in PLO8, and nobody aside from you can do anything about it. If you always flop bad cards, then maybe this isn't the game for you. More likely you are simply discouraged and frustrated because you know you can crack the code but haven't. If you limp reraise with AA4x suited, you're putting a lot of pressure on the A2xx and A3xx hands that are the most likely hands raising you there. A2xx will feel the heat post flop (in this particular spot), and A3xx before the flop (in general). I get the sense you don't know where you are because you are so afraid of bad flops and results that you are not often enough the one who is dictating the action. As dave implied you've got to 'create your own luck' ... like Amir Vahidi said "to live, you must be willing to die" or something along those lines. What is your preflop raise % and VPIP % in full ring games?

[The Donator]

You're right, Rando, I truly believe I can "crack the code" but it's like I'm feeling around in the dark. When I first started playing I was more aggressive and kept getting sucked out on so I think that's why I mostly limp to see flops. I only raise with hands like AA2K suited, then when the 8-9-10 suited flops come I back off and get mugged. So what's a good flop? Is A-3 really any good vs. 2 or 3 opponents with a 5-7-8 board? Somebody's got the A-2, right? Or am I finding monsters under my bed? Is KKJ10 any good with a K-3-4 flop? I figure somebody will at least hit the low for half the pot or even the wheel to scoop me if I don't fill up.
I played scared when I first learned hold 'em, but learned to get out there and mix it up because I'm confident about where I stand postflop. But with so many cards dealt out in OHL I'm always assuming somebody's got something better than I do when I don't have the nuts either way.

[ericicecream]

A good starting point for improvement is to concentrate more on position in this game than in other games you have played.