Stack-to-pot Ratios - How can we utilise this for omaha?

[Ribbo]

Slotboom isn't talking about omaha though. Slotboom is talking about shortstacking. What he said applies to any game and has no relevance whatsoever to omaha so shouldn't be on this forum.

[CrushinFelt]

much larger stack to pot if i'm a) better b) in position c) think the guy with the made hand will pay off my draw when I hit

Much smaller if i'm in position because I want the hand to be straight forward. That is of course unless I flop a monster against an aggro donk, I want [censored] to be deeper so I can bet, he can raise and I can get arrrr in

the bigger my edge in the game the bigger I want the SPR

[sqwisssssss]

idk, it seems the most successful players buy in full and play the game. why would anyone want to deviate from that?

it seems like people are always looking for some easy way out that requires the least amount of thinking.

for every advantage......there is always a disadvantage of some sort. thats why poker is a perfect game.

[Dr_Chris]

SPR is not just about shortstacking it applies to any effective stack depth, the conclusions just differ a little.

It applies even more to PLO than NL Texas holdem since proper planning of your hand and pot manipulation is essential if you want to get your whole stack in the middle good.

As I wrote in the last thread I think a good target SPR is 13 for most good PLO hands where you either flop the nuts, a strong draw to the nuts or nothing. If you hit the flop hard you can then get your whole stack in the middle in three bets without help from your opponents, it also means that you may semi-bluff two streets and still have enough chips for a credible river bluff if you miss (and you believe your opponent may have missed too).

Another category hands are the ones with four big cards where your most likely favorable flop gives you TTP or some combination of top pair and gutshot straight draw. These hands may play better with a SPR of 4-5 which would mean that you should three bet them in position preflop.


It would be nice to have a creative discussion about these things, if you don’t want to use the technique you can probably play perfect Omaha anyway, but could we please not have 30 posts “ this doesn’t apply to PLO” just because you don’t use it and don’t want to learn.

Chris

[chucky]

[ QUOTE ]
SPR is not just about shortstacking it applies to any effective stack depth, the conclusions just differ a little.

It applies even more to PLO than NL Texas holdem since proper planning of your hand and pot manipulation is essential if you want to get your whole stack in the middle good.

As I wrote in the last thread I think a good target SPR is 13 for most good PLO hands where you either flop the nuts, a strong draw to the nuts or nothing. If you hit the flop hard you can then get your whole stack in the middle in three bets without help from your opponents, it also means that you may semi-bluff two streets and still have enough chips for a credible river bluff if you miss (and you believe your opponent may have missed too).

Another category hands are the ones with four big cards where your most likely favorable flop gives you TTP or some combination of top pair and gutshot straight draw. These hands may play better with a SPR of 4-5 which would mean that you should three bet them in position preflop.


It would be nice to have a creative discussion about these things, if you don’t want to use the technique you can probably play perfect Omaha anyway, but could we please not have 30 posts “ this doesn’t apply to PLO” just because you don’t use it and don’t want to learn.

Chris

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain to me how i can get 100 BB in with 3 PSBs. Let's play a 6-max game:

villian limps ep, Hero pots mp,folds, bb and villian call.

Pot is 14 bb

Hero flops top set on Ad7h5d board.

checked to hero. hero pots. villian calls.
Pot is 42bb

Turn comes 6h giving board of Ad7h5d6h. Hero has no flush draws.

Villian checks. Does hero bet to make sure he has 3 PSBs in the pot? Does he check because a draw came in?

Even if hero pot bets and is called, he knows he wont be paid off on river so 3 PSBs is impossible without help from the villian.

[jipster]

"Explain to me how i can get 100 BB in with 3 PSBs. Let's play a 6-max game:

villian limps ep, Hero pots mp,folds, bb and villian call.

Pot is 14 bb"

Ok, in this instance pot 14; with 97bb left effective stacks; so our spr is 97/14 or 6.9 (as chris said, one prefers either 4 -5 or >13 re; his post)

Also; second pot size bet is 42bb (+ 14 flop bet + 3 preflop); leaving 43bb left to bet on the river; hence your three pot size bets, well last bet is 1/3pot but anyway!

It seems you are confusing pot size bets with FLOP stack to pot ratios; maybe i should have made the flop bit clearer in the original post.

Interestingly if you only have 1 psb on the turn you commit anyway with top set; this isn't about how to play any given situation postflop; its about maximising potential profit at minimum risk - to put it better; its about manipulating the size of the pot on the flop to maximise profits in certain types of situations against certain types of players

I suspect you haven't read the book in question, although i might be wrong

Its good to see the thread get under way though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Chris; could you elaborate on how you drew those conclusions please?

Thanks Guys

[jipster]

I realise i didn't quite elaborate enough in the original post;

For those who don't know; SPR is STACK TO POT RATIO

This is the ratio of your stack to the pot after the preflop round of betting;

A couple of examples; you have 20BB; raise for 3BB and get one caller in the SB; so there is 3 + 3 + 1 = 7 (1 Big blind who folded); you have 17BB left so your SPR is 17/7, or 2.4

Same again, but you have 50BB; your SPR is now 47/7, or 6.7

And with 100BB; 97/7 or 13.9

[chucky]

The problem is lets say 1 limper then hero raises to 3 bb. well BB and limper call. Hero has spr of 10. If you are raising hands in a pot limit game to hit a specific spr, what happens with multiple callers? Additionally, if you hit ttp with your akj9 ss hand on a flop of AJ8 two diamonds, how hard do you really want to bet out when checked to? If I pot the flop and a queen shows up on the turn, do I fire again with an spr of 3 or do I check behind?

[Elrazor]

[ QUOTE ]
it seems like people are always looking for some easy way out that requires the least amount of thinking.


[/ QUOTE ]

i agree - im sure if you spoke to the very best PLO players in the world, the best scenario for them would be to have as deep a stack as possible, against other deep stacks. the worst scenario for them would be people will less than 100bbs (effectivly shortstacks) who could make relativly easy post flop decisions based on odds

the bottom line is the shorter you play, the less you are playing players and situations, and the more you are just making simple mathmatical decisions

[Matt Flynn]

in omaha hi you do a ton of stealing and hand values are far closer than in hold 'em, so you'd rarely work to manipulate SPRs other than not putting in half or more of your stack against someone with a likely better hand.

seems SPRs would sometimes help determine what to do postflop, but often your hand dictates your action.