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Old 11-07-2007, 09:05 AM
villains_hero villains_hero is offline
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Default went to showdown and variance

A few questions concerning a) went to showdown and b) variance in unlimited Holdem.

A) Playing FL I learned that WTS, AF and VPIP influence each other. Concerning WTS, there is a range in that can be considered ideal in 6-max midlimit FL games. For instance a typical winning TAG will be between 35 and 39 and a LAG will be probably between 38 and 44 (there are exceptions of course).

So what would these ranges be in NL for someone playing winning 25/15/2 for instance? And how much lower would the WTS of someone playing 25/15/3 be? When will I consider someone weak and when stationish and adjust accordingly?

Concerning winning LAGs my impression is that - different to FL - their WTS in NL is not significantly higher than the TAG's. True?

Given this impression, while table- and seatselecting i find myself more and more looking for the WTS of the opponents in the first place. When I find someone significantly over 30 I will sit down to his left and try to take him to Valuetown. Good attempt?

B) After 25k hands of unlimited holdem (wide range of stakes) i am confident that i beat the game as long as i table- and seatselect carefully. How many hands (in one limit) will it take before i can be sure i'm a winning player? I learned that the variance in NL is lower than in FL because of the reduced number of bad beats we receive. How much lower ist it?
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:44 PM
Guruman Guruman is offline
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Default Re: went to showdown and variance

a few things:

1)you probably shouldn't refer to it as "unlimited" holdem. The term uNL in the micro nl forum refers to the greek symbol "u" which means "micro". Its a semi-common misconception on this board, but it won't make you look cool. Say NL.

2)WTS is indeed heavily influenced by style, but there are other factors that will probably be more relevant more quickly. It takes a very large sample to derive much meaning from wts IMO.

I'd look more closely at a combination of vpip and folded to cont bet % if you want a gauge on postflop play. That'll line you up with a bunch of loose passives who'll fold postflop when they miss. They're not entirely common, but those are the guys you want to target.
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:16 PM
villains_hero villains_hero is offline
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Default Re: went to showdown and variance

[ QUOTE ]
The term uNL in the micro nl forum refers to the greek symbol "u" which means "micro".

[/ QUOTE ]

Didnt know that, thanks. "Unlimited Holdem" sounds funny to me, but this is the last time i use this term here, I promise [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Im not convinced of your second point, but I would agree that we should not draw conclusions out of wts alone too early. It should be combined with observation (and a look at their BB/100 if the sample is not too small).

[ QUOTE ]
I'd look more closely at a combination of vpip and folded to cont bet % if you want a gauge on postflop play. That'll line you up with a bunch of loose passives who'll fold postflop when they miss. They're not entirely common, but those are the guys you want to target.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the main attempt, and of course i do not ignore it: find a limper who will call after you raised him and who wont play back postflop. I like these guys even more on my right when they will also pay off second best hands regularly. That had led me to my wts question.
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