Value bet A-hi?

kapw7 · #1 05-20-2006, 08:33 AM

Villain is LAG 41/17/1.5

Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5.00/$10
3 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (3 players) hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Button raises, SB folds, hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
hero bets, Button raises, hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
hero checks, Button checks.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
hero bets

Kwaz · #2 05-20-2006, 08:50 AM

Betting is not an option.

kapw7 · #3 05-20-2006, 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting is not an option.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was. Together with "check" and "fold".
Care to elaborate?

Kwaz · #4 05-20-2006, 08:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting is not an option.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was. Together with "check" and "fold".
Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're never folding a better hand and he's betting many more worse hands than he's ever calling (your preflop 3bet hand) with.

kapw7 · #5 05-20-2006, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting is not an option.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was. Together with "check" and "fold".
Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're never folding a better hand and he's betting many more worse hands than he's ever calling (your preflop 3bet hand) with.

[/ QUOTE ]

As the title says it's a value bet. He's calling with A-hi here nearly 99% of times and sometimes hands like KQ. These players don't generally bet their A-hi and -usually- K-hi here if we check and I doubt he's going to try a desperate bluff enough times if we check after we've shown a lot of strength OOP. I'm also pretty sure he will bet for value a pair as low as a pair of twos if we check after the turn went check-check and the board paired on the river

Dave G. · #6 05-20-2006, 09:09 AM

Check and call if you must show down. He folds most everything you beat, and calls or raises everything you're behind. Since he's a LAG he may even bluffraise you here, and you certainly can't call. Let him bluff bet, because you can call that one.

ejay · #7 05-20-2006, 01:16 PM

I would check call. If he has a weak fd he will not call and if he had something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] there is a good chance that he would bet the turn. I guess he will call sometimes with A high but if he has a really weak ace he may not due to the strength that you have shown.

I think that checking also allows him to bet his ace high which you are beating.

kapw7 · #8 05-20-2006, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]

As the title says it's a value bet. He's calling with A-hi here nearly 99% of times and sometimes hands like KQ. These players don't generally bet their A-hi and -usually- K-hi here if we check and I doubt he's going to try a desperate bluff enough times if we check after we've shown a lot of strength OOP. I'm also pretty sure he will bet for value a pair as low as a pair of twos if we check after the turn went check-check and the board paired on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-calling is better against a bad non-thinking LAG or a maniac LAG. These ppl are more likely to bet A-hi or whatever else they happen to hold there. A better player will not bet these holdings but he will value bet any pair since our hand is so obvious.

Check-(fold) is an option against a very passive player as he is not going to bet weak pair and thus save us a bet.

This is another hand from the same player:

Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5.00/$10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, 3 folds, hero calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
hero checks, UTG bets, hero calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
hero checks, UTG checks.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
hero checks, UTG checks.

Results:
Final pot: 3.25BB
UTG shows Kd As

raze · #9 05-20-2006, 02:21 PM

A bet here has expected value of somewhere between zero and negative money. Instead, you can check/call and let him bluff a bet to you on his busted draw.

kapw7 · #10 05-20-2006, 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A bet here has expected value of somewhere between zero and negative money. Instead, you can check/call and let him bluff a bet to you on his busted draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll bet a busted draw on the river but he didnt semibluff the turn with a FD? Not likely