Cake Poker Gold Card issue

[mupo]

i was in the process of signing up but then i realised u can only do it thru neteller,too much effort y cant u use a credit card?

[Grummin]

We have Credit Card. And, we have FirePay for the non-US folks.

We're trying to figure out which one to hit next for the US croud.

[Grummin]

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read the example given...if it's NL heads up, and you're VERY deep, you know the most the guy has is most likely the 1 card str8, not a full house, so you can push and hopefully get him off the split, and or bluff him if you're "deep enough".

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But you don't know that until after the hand is over when the gold card comes out. You can't bet based on it.

It's a minor edge over time because the gold cards are weighted toward low cards and you can presumably get a very small advantage in reading your opponent if you know this. You don't ever actually know that a particular gold card is low, though. And the playing field remains level: he can make the same conclusions about you.

All in all I think it could use a fix, but isn't a big deal. The easiest fix I can come up with is to stockpile the gold cards in HU and very short games and release them all at intervals (half-hour?) or when a player leaves. That way nobody knows what specific hand they came from.

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I saw the point made about how this can be considered a low-card tip off. However, I would submit the following for discussion:

Let's assume that a $5/$10 NL game is playing HU. That basically puts a Gold Card firing out every 5-9 hands.

A player nabs a Gold Card pre-flop because the other player raised a considerable amount.

The player could have had Ace/Rag, King/Rag, or just [censored]. Either way, the player folded. They're NOT folding high cards. So, very little impact from a Gold Card being awarded.

After the flop, same scenario:
Pre-flop, Player A calls SB, Player B triples the BB and A calls.
4, K, Q rainbow on the flop. Player A bets the pot and B folds (but wins a Gold Card).
You can assume B has a 2 from that, but he also could have had pocket 2's, 3s, 5s, 6s and just didn't like the flop. The Gold Card basically says he most likely didn't have a 4, but only because B's folded.

Since the Gold Card is hidden and Player B NEVER has to reveal what it was to the opponent, no one can know for certain is what I was getting at. It would be a different story is the GC came up during the hand.

Again, set me straight if I'm missing something. I want to make certain that Gold Cards are fun and never alter the way people play the game.

[2461Badugi]

You are missing something, but I'm not sure how to put it any better. I'll extract the key bits:
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over time... you can presumably get a very small advantage in reading your opponents.

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I'm not convinced this is ever going to be actually meaningful. But it's there.

Ah: I have an example. I have a friend who "randomizes" his bluffs by making them when he has nut low or near-nut low. Given this strategy and the gold card weighting, he may get a gold card most of the time that he bluffs, and very rarely when he's not bluffing. That's more or less equivalent to showing his cards.

[Mike Haven]

Ah, I see. So if his nut low bluff is caught lots of times, then the next time he bets the other player will know he might be bluffing with another nut low, and will find out after the hand is over, if the guy gets another Gold Card, that he might have been?

Right.

[kurosh]

Here's a good example:

I raise on button, he 3-bets from BB. Flop comes whatever and I fold. He gets a gold card. I realize he is 3-betting with trashy hands.

[kurosh]

Thinly veiled brag: I keep breaking games and none of the regulars will play with me anymore [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Grummin]

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Here's a good example:

I raise on button, he 3-bets from BB. Flop comes whatever and I fold. He gets a gold card. I realize he is 3-betting with trashy hands.

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Let's use one of your winning hands as an example:

http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Ha...TExMTExMTEwojE

You'll see Adanthar went to the showdown, lost, but won a Gold Card.

What do you believe that the winning of this Gold Card displayed about his play? Agreed, odds are the card was lower, but in this instance, he mucked and you could see as a player what his cards were by clicking Last Hand. If he'd folded, you would have known only that one of the cards was quite possibily low.

Doug

[Mike Haven]

Almost anyone who plays HU will sometimes 3-bet with trashy hands, or with 44, or with A5s, or with 76s. (Someone above said that his "friend" bluffed his nut lows - not his 82o, where he might occasionally win by fluke, but he actually picks hands that he can't win with if his bluff is called.)

I think you're struggling to find ways where it can help to learn after the fact that the guy might have bluffed, and yet it is already universally accepted that correct bluffing and semi-bluffing is a major part of HU play.

[kurosh]

I don't think it's a big problem at all. Over a long period of time, I think it could make a slight difference. It's not a priority.

In this instance, ok, lets say he folded the river and he gets a gold card. I can tell a lot and it will affect my future play. I know with at least a 95% probability that one of his cards is under a 6. He didn't have a 4 or 5, because he would have called a river bet with those.

With a 95% probability, I know one of his cards is a 2, 3 or 6. Then I consider what the hell he is peeling with on that type of board and plays like that. I can narrow down his range to K6, K3, K2, Q6, Q3, Q2, T6, T3, T2, 96, 93, 92.

What do I learn from this? He raises [censored] hands from the SB and peels like an idiot. Next time, I will bet that turn with any two.