Villian checks flop, now raises my trips 2nd Kicker on turn???

[odawg09090]

I don't think it's that cool when other people make up hands that they don't actually play and post it as their own so I'll be straight with you guys. This is a hand that my friend played and I'm posting it here because he's busy MTing and we were debating over the turn decision.

MY VIEW: The turn is a call 100% with a hand like KQ. My reasoning is that he could has a monster like 88 or K8 or 33 and you could be way behind. He could also be on a bluff or on a TT, JJ hand where you'd be way ahead. I see no reason to raise here because you only get action from hands that crush you. Against hands you're behind you don't wanna raise so you can catch up and perhaps force a cheaper SD with the deeper stacks. Against hands that you kill (pure air and 99,TT,JJ,QQ), calling allows him one more chance to bluff river while raising and having him shove (and you calling to find air) is really rare. There are no draws here you have to protect from so the chance he's semibluffing is non-existent. In my opinion, a raise is fundamentally incorrect poker.

HIS OPINION: His line looks like pure air so I would rerasie a lot of bluffs as I would reraise with a big hand. If I call turn, check river, he'll know I have to have a hand, whereas if I raise, I don't need to have a hand (and might be able to induce another reraise steal bluff from him). The range I put him on is 70% bluff, 20% TTish, and 10% Kx. I like to balance my raises there with bluffs and great hands too. And I might be able to get more value from hands I beat (whether by inducing a bluff or call).


Set us straight fellow 2+2ers. Maybe I'm right, maybe he's right, maybe the answer's somewhere in between. Onto the hand...


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($5467.30)
UTG ($2441)
Button ($8410.70)
Hero ($8966)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $150</font>, Hero calls $125, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($350) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($350) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $350</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1350</font>

[spino1i]

I think calling the turn is fine to induce more bluffing on the river. I agree with your logic and not your friend's logic.

[king_of_drafts]

[ QUOTE ]
I think calling the turn is fine to induce more bluffing on the river. I agree with your logic and not your friend's logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, I think this induces many more bluffs than 3 betting the turn, plus you don't stack off vs. better

[Pigeons]

Both are right, depends on dynamics, history, images, etc.

[ArmenH]

It is tough to decide the right line here without information about Villains game. Is Villain LAG , TAG? Is he capable of checking a set behing here? Villain either flopped a set or has complete air. Tough to say what the right play is here without knowing his stats and image. KQ is a tough hand to play OOP for this reason. Either you're drawing close to dead here or you have him crushed. Either way I would never reraise turn here. What ended up happening?

[Stinger88]

call turn c/c river, maybe even c/r if you think weaker K's are a big part of his range

[raptor517]

well, if your friend is overagg hypermonkey and 3bets that turn airy a lot, then yeah its great to 3bet there. if you are a nit and dont 3bet turns like that with air, and always have the nuts, then calling is best. just depends on your style i think.

[restrikt]

Please get all your money in somehow.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
see no reason to raise here because you only get action from hands that crush you.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, there is alot of value in a 3bet turn bc he could have a worse king and call you, or an underpair and call you, or 2nd pair and call you, or aces and callyou.


[ QUOTE ]
HIS OPINION: His line looks like pure air so I would rerasie a lot of bluffs as I would reraise with a big hand. If I call turn, check river, he'll know I have to have a hand, whereas if I raise, I don't need to have a hand

[/ QUOTE ]

he's right
however
i doubt too many ppl when they 3bet this turn have air too often.. it is generally trips+.

[pocketjesuits]

[ QUOTE ]
Is he capable of checking a set behing here? Villain either flopped a set or has complete air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no. Weaker made hands make up a good part of his range.