Chris Matthews surprising honesty on US-Iran relations

[Ineedaride2]

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Yeah, its all our fault.

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Where is the proof that they're building a nuclear weapon?

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Would a mushroom cloud work?

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Good idea! If we can't use logic and evidence, just scare the [censored] out of em!

Hannity would be proud.

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Hannity is an idiot IMO.

Reality is often tough to face though, I understand.

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The guy asked, "Where is the evidence that they are building a nuclear weapon?", and instead of offering said evidence (which you might have, I don't know), you inferred that we'll find out after we see the mushroom cloud.

You skipped a very important step in answering his question.

Now, I'm of the opinion that Iran COULD be developing nuclear capabilities, but since I have NOT seen a mushroom cloud (or any other direct evidence), I am forced to believe that they are not building nuclear weapons.

I will readily change my views if I see evidence that proves otherwise.

[GtrHtr]

What evidence/proof are you looking for? The IAEA saying "country x has 145 nukes or the capability to produce xx nukes?" I"m not trying to be overly one sided in this, but our future security is pretty important to all of us I would hope. No evidence short of a mushroom cloud will likely satisfy some I'd guess. This is not CSI or grand jury testimony.

Do you think its ok if Iran develops a nuclear weapon? What do you think they would do with a nuke if they had one?

Finally, I wrote "Yeah, its ALL our fault." SOME of it is our fault and responsibility surely. I refer to the Shah. Our actions in the world one way or the other should be accountable. But put this into context. Do we as a society hate the Japanese in 2007 for bombing Pearl Harbor in 1941? You could certainly place blame on US policy in some part for that as well. Both societies have moved on. My point is that we live in the here and now. The world is a much more dangerous place than a lot of Westerners, particularly in the US are willing to admit. So for context, I'd encourage some posters to stop looking for ways to make us the villain and look at ways to ensure we continue to have the opportunity to keep posting on forums like this and enjoying our lives.

[manbearpig]

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but our future security is pretty important to all of us I would hope.

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ORLY? Do the people of Irans future security matter? Or the people of Iraqs? Or is that unimportant to this argument becuase we are the world police?

[GtrHtr]

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but our future security is pretty important to all of us I would hope.

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ORLY? Do the people of Irans future security matter? Or the people of Iraqs? Or is that unimportant to this argument becuase we are the world police?

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I'm a US citizen. The security of US citizens takes priority over anyone else in the world. What do you think? Is an Iranians security more important than your countries citizens security?

[j555]

Yes, I would like some evidence from someone other than the Bush Administration that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. Have you been in a coma the past 5 years? You're using the same justifications for going into Iraq that weren't true. They're supporting terrorists and they have weapons of mass destruction. Have you learned nothing from Iraq? Watch this video as a refresher course for the build up to the Iraq war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

[GtrHtr]

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Have you been in a coma the past 5 years?

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Nope, I've been busy fighting a war.

I'm not suggesting we go to war, although that is an option.

I will ask you this though, what if you are wrong? What are the ramifications of that?

[morphball]

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Do you think its ok if Iran develops a nuclear weapon? What do you think they would do with a nuke if they had one?


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The most probably outcome is that they will use the weapon for deterrence value only. Only one country has every used nuclear weapons, the USA. Now, I am not saying the US is evil for doing so at all, but let's examine the lay of the land when the weapons were deployed.

1. The country the weapons were used on did not have nuclear weapons of its own for retaliation.

2. The country the weapons were used on did not have allies which possessed a nuclear arsenal that could be used for retaliation.

None of these conditions exist for Iran at this time. Moreover, history further demonstrates that countries armed with nuclear arsenals tend to avoid direct military conflict with each other.

There is a third factor, that does give one room for pause though, and that is that the United States and Japan were already at war when the United States developped the weapon. There is certainly room to argue that Israel, Iran and the United States are engaged in some level of conflict at the moment.

[j555]

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Have you been in a coma the past 5 years?

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Nope, I've been busy fighting a war.

I'm not suggesting we go to war, although that is an option.

I will ask you this though, what if you are wrong? What are the ramifications of that?

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If I'm wrong and they have a nuclear weapon then the IAEA will probably say so when they inspect in the next couple months. If they hide it, would they use it on us? Maybe, but it would be pretty stupid don't you think? If they did use it on us, the U.S. and Israel would throw everything we have at them and they'd be left in ruins. Do you think they're that stupid to not realize that?

Also, how do we know I'm wrong until we have evidence to the contrary? If you're not suggesting we invade them then what are you suggesting? To gather more evidence like I am? And what are the ramifications if you are wrong and we do invade another country that doesn't have WMDs?

[ZeroPointMachine]

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Have you been in a coma the past 5 years?

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Nope, I've been busy fighting a war.

I'm not suggesting we go to war, although that is an option.

I will ask you this though, what if you are wrong? What are the ramifications of that?

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Iran joins the list of countries we will not invade, and whose government we will not try to overthrow, because they have nuclear weapons.

Many countries have nukes. Nobody uses them. Everybody knows that using one in an attack would amount to national suicide. The Iranians are working very hard to protect their sovereign nation. They don't seem interested in being bombed back to the stone age.

[GtrHtr]

Then I think we agree. However, I don't believe Vietnam = Iraq or a potiential conflict with Iran = Iraq. Each situation is different and needs to remain in that context.

The ramifications of invading another country without finding WMD if the reason for invasion was WMD would be our already weakened credibility in the world would be reduced even further and would weaken the US's overall security and result in the loss of life on both sides.

Personally, I don't think an invasion of Iran is even remotely possible, but that doesn't mean there won't be military action.

Morph, mutually assured destruction assumes that both parties are rational actors.