Why M is Overrated

[GT123]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're trying to make a distinction that doesn't exist. M and N (number of BB left in your stack) are fully correlated -- M = N / 1.5 if there are no antes. Whether you think in terms of M or N is mathematically irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP's post must have hit a nerve, the guy comes out of a four year lurking just to try and explain how you are wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[rockin]

wow, that is pretty amazing. Welcome oh veteran/noob.

[nath]

M matters.
Take it from me; I'm better than you.

[Jurollo]

M is a better calculation of overall tournament strategy. For instance, when to go pushbot and what not.

BBs is a better indicator of FE in a single pot as antes will basically never factor into pot odds THAT much in a given pot.

Think of it this way
M = macro
BB = micro

[locutus2002]

BB is tough enough for me to count.

I have to keep track of all those players, their stacks, their habits. How many chips I have, what I would bet on each street, when I'd fold, how much I can drink before I get a bathroom break.

I'm not doing division aswell.

[TakenItEasy]

Actually they are both important.

BB is a better indicator of FE but not quite correct because the antes still bump up the pot odds a little.

M is a better measure of how much time you have left. Plus not counting antes will leave you short faster than you think, and the +EV that antes adds towards pushing is very significant.

So, as the pusher, M is more important and, as the caller, BBs is more important but it's a mistake to not take both into consideration from either point of view since you will get EV wrong from a hand range or calling potential miscalcultaion.

However I think that Q is the most underrated number around bubble time. I think knowing who is forced to make moves verses those with safer stacks is important. In fact beyound Q, I like to keep my eye on the stack size of the player exactly on the bubble since those below will have the ipression that they need to act while those above that number will have the impression that they can tighten up.

[Spee]

Thanks for taking it out of context, Mick and Rockin.

What I said was:
"If I'm several doubles away from the small money or the lead, then I really don't care whether my M ...."

I didn't say that I never think about M or that is completely and utterly irrelevant ALL the time. It is one factor for consideration. And at times, that one factor is irrelevant.

[JC_Saves]

Using the example that you use 1800 in the pot at 200/400 50, then the pot is 600+500 = 1100 in the pot each hand. With a stack of 1800 you have already let your stack get too small to start making moves. 1800/400 4.5BBs is not enough to really worry anyone, yes, you have FE, but it is on the low end.

Using an M=5 as a guideline for desparation pushing then 5500 would be that stack size, and 5500/400 is 13.75BBs. You would have max FE if you were pushing with this stack size. an M of 4 would be 4400 which corresponds to 11BBs, still great fold equity.

M is directly relational to BBs left. This is why you need to make moves while your stack(M) is still of value. When antes are involved M takes on even more importance than BBs.

[msirani]

And Harrington puts the various Ms into different zones to give you a sense of your well being in the tournament. Green--very good place to be--is 20 and above; Yellow is 10-19 (time to be aware of a downward trend and a time not to play speculative hands like suited connectors and small pairs), Orange is between 5-9 and a time to consider making a strong first one in all-in raise; and Red is below 5, a time to move all in with any pair or any two big cards if no one else has entered the pot by the time it is your turn to act.

[Ansky]

This thread is retarded. You can calculate your FE from situation to situation. It's not that hard to figure out how much you are losing every round and what price the BB is getting.

You can use whatever [censored] number you want, but let's be serious, it's all semantics. M is a better because it includes antes in the calculation, and # of BBs don't, but you can just count them on top. It's not that hard.