$55 NLTRN: standard KK on A hi board?

[emKay]

Standard? Does anyone not bet out the turn?



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t1510)
Hero (t1490)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button calls t10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, Button calls t40.

Flop: (t120) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, Button calls t80.

Turn: (t280) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t120</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t240</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t520

[HokieGreg]

Raise 4 x bb preflop oop. As played, I think its ok, but you could maybe call his minraise and see what he does on the river.

[tmcdmck]

no do not raise 4xbb preflop. that is really really really bad advice. obviously make a standard raise so it is not blatent you have a monster (and raising to 60 is most common pfr size).

you played the hand fine; calling the minraise would be spew; he either has an ace and is beating you, or is bluffing and will probably fire again on the river.


betting out on the turn is marginal, so it depends on reads which i dont have, but i would usually check i guess, but i dont have a big problem with betting.

but seriously ignore greg's post.

[HokieGreg]

[ QUOTE ]
no do not raise 4xbb preflop. that is really really really bad advice. obviously make a standard raise so it is not blatent you have a monster (and raising to 60 is most common pfr size).

you played the hand fine; calling the minraise would be spew; he either has an ace and is beating you, or is bluffing and will probably fire again on the river.


betting out on the turn is marginal, so it depends on reads which i dont have, but i would usually check i guess, but i dont have a big problem with betting.

but seriously ignore greg's post.

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone else that has a clue what is going on will agree with me that raising 1 more bb oop is completely standard preflop.

i agree calling minraise is marginal.

am i putting you on life-tilt tmc??? lol

[tmcdmck]

well to be fair you are doing my head in by giving really bad advice is a really confident manner. and no one will agree with you about bet sizing in a nltrn is my prediction, but i will have to let others speak for themselves (what i can say though is that when i have played megah and ovalis, neither of them raised to 4xbb . . . )

[HokieGreg]

Saying 3 x bb in position and 4 x bb oop doesn't really work because you can make arguments to raise smaller amounts with certain stack sizes.

Adding 1 bb to your preflop raise oop is pretty standard though.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
obviously make a standard raise so it is not blatent you have a monster

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you should make a standard raise.

But most of the time, 4xBB should *be* your standard raise OOP. That is what greg is saying there. Simply ignoring the comment altogether would be a mistake.

I don't think calling the minraise is *complete* spew, either. If he has an ace, it's not going to be a strong one unless it's A4 (most people don't limp A8+ on the button), so you're not likely to face a big bet on the river most of the time, and it could be a jack wanting to find out if you really have an ace, or even JcXc.

And you're getting almost 4 1/2 to 1 on the minraise call, so edit - you only have to be ahead - /edit like 18% of the time or something for the call to be reasonable.

It's very tough to make guesses about what villain could be doing this with given a complete absence of reads, or previous game flow, though.

[tmcdmck]

[censored] greg i owe you an apology, i completely missed that OP was oop. sorry. yeah raise bigger.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
no one will agree with you about bet sizing in a nltrn is my prediction

[/ QUOTE ]
I definitely agree (although whether I actually have a clue or not is certainly up for debate. Most days I would say no), but I know for a fact there are a number of other frequent posters who are solid winning players that would also agree that 4xBB is a better OOP raise than 3x.

[tmcdmck]

yeah i know, as i said, i misread OP and missed that he was oop, so yeah, i feel stupid, and now agree with greg.