Top Pair on Flop, With Position. I Don't Suck.

[Tugg]

your protecting against gut shots ,oc's, bdfd and lower pairs. for instance someone with a Q in their hand, or an A, or the Ah.If they call we benefit from their mistake

[BadBigBabar]

joga, free advice: it doesn't seem like you're ready to be playing 2/4 online. maybe drop down a few limits just because it seems like you're missing some fundamentals.

and raising tp on a drawy flop is really standard because you want to charge/force out all the draws that will call for 1 bet.

[KitCloudkicker]

[quoteWhat about the fold? What about the hands the C/R has here?
Minimum hand requirements for this play is TPTK, Or am I off?

[/ QUOTE ]

TPTK usually raises preflop. i doubt he has that.

range here is T8, JT, J9, J7, Jx, flush draw, flush draw+pair, pair+straightdraw, 77, 99.

needless to say you cant fold for 1 bet.

[One Outer]

grunch

As played you should call the second bet back, please. You should have raised the original bet. Not raising the first bet is pretty bad, IMO.

If SB c/r to three after that I'm not sure what to do. This is where not playing online makes my opinion lesser than some others. The board is really drawy, so I'm inclined to say that's a big portion of his range, but I don't really have a feel as to how big a portion. Generally, getting to showdown with hands like this is standard.

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
calling doesn't protect our hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Protect our hand? It's not a premium hand. What hands FOLD due to my Raise here to 2bets, which hands call? I guess what I am asking is.. on this scary/drawheavy board.. What's 2 bets in a big pot compared to one?

How do I REALLY Protect this by raising on the Flop. You answer me that and I might take your word for it. Otherwise I think your standard cookie cutter play isn't as good as my call behind w/ 2 to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any hand that contains a Q or A, especially the Q and A of hearts, any hand that contains an 8 or T, a 9 or 7 peeling; these are all threats to your pretty likely to be best hand and stuff you would like to fold out. If you don't raise they can peel correctly. If you do raise and they still call they are paying you because they're making a mistake. There are tons of hands you want to see go away here. Limit poker 101.

I'm tempted to use a picture I like a lot to describe how I feel about not raising the flop, but I'm holding back...for now.

[MikeTheGeek]

The fact that your hand is not premium is exactly why you need to raise to protect it. You could push out AJ of clubs for example and win when others miss their flush. You also get a lot of good information. You might get a free card on the turn as a result as well; you have backdoor flush and straight draws in addition to top pair, great kicker (and position). Aggression with marginal hands can help narrow the field and make you the winner, especially if you hit 2 pair or trips and the flush doesn't arrive.

[Hyperrrprank]

Gah. Raise the flop. You don't seem to feel that you can protect your hand in this case, which I don't think is true since the board is very draw heavy and you have a great opportunity to fold the weaker draws. In addition, you are probably holding the best hand and you'll want to drag as big a pot as possible when the flush or straight draws don't come in.

Your backdoor draws add quite a lot of additional value to your hand, and folding when it's raised back to you is TERRIBLE. You probably have the best hand currently, and you've got a tons of outs to improve.

[Mitke]

* grunch *

Preflop is a raise if you want to play. I don't want more people in with an off-suit hand.

Raise the flop the first time around. To protect and for value.

As played I peel the flop. Pot is big. C/r could be for equity value with a FD + gutshot + pair or similar combo hand. We still have outs vs. twopairs too.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
game is $2/$4 Pokerstars. 9 handed
no-reads at table. It's pretty damn standard.
UTG+2 Limps, Hero has K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and Calls from MP. Everyone behind hero folds, Hero now has position in hand.

SB Calls, BB Checks, Flop is
J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB Checks, BB Checks, UTG+2 Bets, Hero Calls, SB Raises, BB Folds, UTG+2 Calls, <font color="red"> Hero Folds. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to play top pair like this your pf limp sucks.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
game is $2/$4 Pokerstars. 9 handed
no-reads at table. It's pretty damn standard.
UTG+2 Limps, Hero has K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and Calls from MP. Everyone behind hero folds, Hero now has position in hand.

SB Calls, BB Checks, Flop is
J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB Checks, BB Checks, UTG+2 Bets, Hero Calls, SB Raises, BB Folds, UTG+2 Calls, <font color="red"> Hero Folds. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

this hand is poorly played on both streets. this is not me being a dick. this is just me trying to be honest.

first, i hate pf. i would probably fold. if i didn't fold i would raise to buy the button and minimize the field. KJo doesn't play well postflop multiway. it's a top pair hand, and top pair fares better against a smaller field.

as for the flop, you should be looking to raise anyone that bets into you. that flop hit alot QJ/JT type hands as well as alot of connectors that players like to limp such as QT, 68, [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draws, 9T, A9, etc. in other words, there are alot of hands that will give action that you are currently ahead of.

limping pf and then playing the flop so passively hasn't defined the strength of your hand and as such has put you in a difficult spot. don't mess around on super drawy boards like this. people jam draws and it makes it difficult to really see where you are at. playing aggressively on the small streets gets you paid off by a wider range of hands and saves bets on big streets.

that said, what was your plan going into this hand? what were you hoping to see on the flop? after the flop comes, what is your rationale behind the flop call and what were you going to do on the turn?