22 in SB

[cmcxchris]

just straightforward bet. that's the plan here.

this kind of thinking, in this particular situation, trying to get tricky, has a place in no-limit. in limit - the possible extra gain doesn't compensate for the possible bad things. in this particular situation.

here's one example of a bad thing. say you're up against Q7 (hit two pair) and 55 and Q7 checks too. and the turn is a 5. the pot is huge in both cases but you only get it leading out.

that's just one example, but the idea remains the same.

just bet - it's straightforward. don't try to eek out an extra bet or two at the risk of giving up the huge pot here.
know that most of the time no one will have anything, and you won't make much money anyway.

if so, rinse, repeat, get rewarded at a later time and place.

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you donk this flop you're going to get called down by a decent number of hands that would have bet and then called down. Also, your donk-3bet will get called down by hands that would have bet and put in another raise against your flop check-raise (perhaps even on the turn).

If the flop were more draw heavy bet-3bet would be good. But if CO is a good player, he's going to just call down your 3bet with a lot of very good hands that would be paying a lot more vs a checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]I gave a bad read on Button. He has been capping with 64s, and check-3betting 52 with A92 flops. He's a full-blown maniac.

It's because of him that I decide to donk the flop. I assume he's raising no matter what.

I made a concerted effort to watch CO when Button 3-bet, because I wanted to see how he reacted to being reraised by an unknown. If he's c-betting with crap or otherwise looks displeased at the reraise, I plan to check-raise the turn since CO is probably done with the hand anyway.

If CO looks excited by the 3-bet, I'll consider re-donking the turn figuring the action might mirror that of the flop. Button screwed up all my plans by folding.

[threeonefour]

that is a pretty dry board (i am assuming no flush draw), a check 3bet would convey a lot of strength on such a dry board to almost all 1st level thinkers (which is 95%+ of players and 80%+ of solid tags imo). most of the time you will be check-2betting though, i don't think this is a bad line but i definitely think it is inferior to betting.

check/calling is horrifically stupid imo (no offense to people advocating that line), i think others have explained adequately why.

betting is best, as it often is against aggressive players, i wouldn't be surprised if you can bet 3bet with nearly the same frequency that you can check raise. it simply gets more money in on the flop while you are holding a monster and i don't think it diminishes the amount of action you will be getting on the turn and river compared to check raising.

EDIT:

missed your follow up post, after CO raises and BTN folds i feel 3 betting is technically correct but i would want to call and check raise occasionally. i think there are a lot of times you can 3bet the flop then check raise the river (perhaps even the turn) anyway when a 'scare' card like an ace hits. this assumes a player who actually value bets rivers, and it certainly sounds like the CO based on your snap judgements.

[Chipspin]

You have to bet here. The board is too dry to represent anything except a set with a c/3bet. And c/cc2 also represents a massive hand.

Bet and get raised. Take it from there.

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
in limit - the possible extra gain doesn't compensate for the possible bad things.

[/ QUOTE ]I generally agree and just ram and jam sets, but--ProfessorBen's colorful simile aside--this is a really dry board, so my 3-nanosecond calculations before I act say that I can eek out an extra .5BB from these bastards!

Anyway, I'll just skip to the river, which is where I think I really screwed up.

A blank hits the turn -- let's call it a 5. no flush possible

I check, CO bets, I raise.

River is a Ten. I bet, CO raises.

I'm physically incapable of folding if I 3-bet and he 4-bets.

[threeonefour]

DueceKicker,

easy threebet the river and call the 4. EDIT: folding to the 4 would be madness even if you were capable of such a fold.

lets review:

you call preflop from a blind (you have [censored] as far as everyone else is concerned)
you bet call the flop (i guess you have a pair)
you check raise the turn (top pairish)
you bet the river (still top pairish)
now you are raised.

you really haven't represented a monster (not exclusively at least), as such his river raise doesn't represent a monster. easiest three bet in the world, if its capped (QT being his mostly likely hand) i would expect to be good more than half the time.

[Chipspin]

[ QUOTE ]
DueceKicker,

easy threebet the river and call the 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Against an unknown I think this is your line. Against a very weak player, you could probably muck to a 4th bet.

[rafiki]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is not interesting. Bet the flop. Raise at every opportunity while there is a cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

[mosch]

[ QUOTE ]
Against a very weak player, you could probably muck to a 4th bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be absurd. Mucking in a ~ 15bb pot for one bet. You're going to see AA, KK, AQ and QT often enough here to make it a call.

As to the original question, I'd probably bet bet bet, but if people thought I was particularly retarded (this is common), I'd check/cold-call the flop, then bet/3-bet the turn.