Poll: who started the Korean war in 1950

[tolbiny]

Curiosity

[iron81]

Is this a level? The North launched an unprovoked invasion of the South.

[tomdemaine]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a level? The North launched an unprovoked invasion of the South.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spoilers in white please. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Kaj]

Where's the option for the arbitrary split of the peninsula made by USSR and USA with little thought given to the actual inhabitants of the country?

With only weeks to live, Franklin Delano Roosevelt made his way to the Yalta Conference in February 1945. Russian Premier Joseph Stalin called for “buffer zones” in both Asia and Europe.[16] Stalin believed that Russia should have preeminence in China, and in return he would enter into the war against Japan “two to three weeks after the surrender of Germany.”[16]

On August 10, 1945, with the Japanese surrender imminent, the American government was unsure whether the Russians would adhere to the proposal arranged by the U.S. government. A month earlier, Colonels Dean Rusk and Bonesteel had drawn the dividing line at the 38th parallel in less than one-half an hour and using a National Geographic map for reference.[17][18][19] Rusk, later U.S. Secretary of State, commented that the American military was “faced with the scarcity of U.S. forces immediately available and time and space factors which would make it difficult to reach very far north before Soviet troops could enter the area.”[16] History showed that the Soviets fulfilled their obligations and halted at the 38th parallel.

The Soviets accepted this line with little question since it helped their negotiations over eastern Europe. Japanese forces north of that line would surrender to the Soviet Union, and those to the south to the United States. Thus, without consulting the Korean people, the two major powers divided the Korean peninsula into two occupation zones, thereby putting into place the foundation for the eventual civil war. Although later policies and actions contributed to Korea's division, the United States did not envision this as a permanent partition.[20]

Incidentally, I've been to the Korean War Museum in Seoul. Walking around Seoul, the people are not friendly to Americans (in my experience), treating you as you might expect blacks were treated walking around Atlanta in 1950s. They don't seem to want us in their country. Except those outside the military base gates selling stuff to GIs (including any kind of sex you might want). The base I was at closed the gates completely for inbound/outbound traffic one day in the 2 weeks I was there due to an anti-American protest in the streets. It was a strange feeling to really feel like part of an occupying power -- you can see it in most of the other people there that they didn't give a rat's ass about the country or its people (in my opinion). It was an interesting trip.

[govman6767]

op is horrible.

Nielso obv thinks U.S. started Korean War

[lehighguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Where's the option for the arbitrary split of the peninsula made by USSR and USA with little thought given to the actual inhabitants of the country?

With only weeks to live, Franklin Delano Roosevelt made his way to the Yalta Conference in February 1945. Russian Premier Joseph Stalin called for “buffer zones” in both Asia and Europe.[16] Stalin believed that Russia should have preeminence in China, and in return he would enter into the war against Japan “two to three weeks after the surrender of Germany.”[16]

On August 10, 1945, with the Japanese surrender imminent, the American government was unsure whether the Russians would adhere to the proposal arranged by the U.S. government. A month earlier, Colonels Dean Rusk and Bonesteel had drawn the dividing line at the 38th parallel in less than one-half an hour and using a National Geographic map for reference.[17][18][19] Rusk, later U.S. Secretary of State, commented that the American military was “faced with the scarcity of U.S. forces immediately available and time and space factors which would make it difficult to reach very far north before Soviet troops could enter the area.”[16] History showed that the Soviets fulfilled their obligations and halted at the 38th parallel.

The Soviets accepted this line with little question since it helped their negotiations over eastern Europe. Japanese forces north of that line would surrender to the Soviet Union, and those to the south to the United States. Thus, without consulting the Korean people, the two major powers divided the Korean peninsula into two occupation zones, thereby putting into place the foundation for the eventual civil war. Although later policies and actions contributed to Korea's division, the United States did not envision this as a permanent partition.[20]

Incidentally, I've been to the Korean War Museum in Seoul. Walking around Seoul, the people are not friendly to Americans (in my experience), treating you as you might expect blacks were treated walking around Atlanta in 1950s. They don't seem to want us in their country. Except those outside the military base gates selling stuff to GIs (including any kind of sex you might want). The base I was at closed the gates completely for inbound/outbound traffic one day in the 2 weeks I was there due to an anti-American protest in the streets. It was a strange feeling to really feel like part of an occupying power -- you can see it in most of the other people there that they didn't give a rat's ass about the country or its people (in my opinion). It was an interesting trip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, they hate us. But they aren't willing to be big boys and build thier own defense infastructure and stop relying on us. It is like the rebellous teen still living in his mom's basement.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
op is horrible.

Nielso obv thinks U.S. started Korean War

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose if you artificially start the history of the region at the Potsdam Conference then the US and USSR did create the circumstances that led to the KW. Of course, if they didnt create those circustances, there would be no Korea or Koreans left, just a few slaves of the Japanese and a lot more mass graves. Of course, in Nielso's worldview that is utopia, and US intervention ruined it.

[Bill Haywood]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, they hate us. But they aren't willing to be big boys and build thier own defense infastructure.

[/ QUOTE ]

SK is very militarized, it's not like they don't have troops on the line. More importantly, the US has often disrupted SK attempts to improve ties with the North, as if Washington is a better judge of the danger. Case in point, Washington frowned on southern investments in the north. SK is more eager for reconciliation, and the departure of US troops, than Washington.

In addition to Kaj's helpful contribution:

1. Originally, the USSR was going to occupy all of Korea. The US insisted on a shared occupation after the Bomb worked, and the US no longer welcomed Soviet participation in the war on Japan.

2. There had been significant fighting between north and south for several years. Rhee wanted to launch an invasion of the north, but the US refused the reckless act of giving him heavy weapons (unlike Stalin).

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
op is horrible.

Nielso obv thinks U.S. started Korean War

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose if you artificially start the history of the region at the Potsdam Conference then the US and USSR did create the circumstances that led to the KW. Of course, if they didnt create those circustances, there would be no Korea or Koreans left, just a few slaves of the Japanese and a lot more mass graves. Of course, in Nielso's worldview that is utopia, and US intervention ruined it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want credit for rescuing a nation, which the US certainly deserves, then you also get blame when you turn your back on your own principles once you vanquish that nation's oppressors.

US liberated Korea = good

US arbitrarily dividing Korea with USSR w/o any input by Koreans = bad

Your world is always black or white. But guess what? It's gray. And US is often in the gray, not shining proudly in white.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]


1. Originally, the USSR was going to occupy all of Korea. The US insisted on a shared occupation after the Bomb worked, and the US no longer welcomed Soviet participation in the war on Japan.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? The Potsdam Declaration preceded the bombings of Hirsoshima and Nagaski. After the bombings we wouldnt have needed the USSR's cooperation in the North. As I recall Russia hadn't even declared war against Japan. Stalin welcomed an administrative foothold in the North once Japan did surrender to the US in order to continue installing communist governments around the world.