Hellgate: London - Calling Diablo Fans

[Artsemis]

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Skills should be a utility, not a necessity.

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Haven't played this game, but in general, it's loot that should be a utility, not a necessity.

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So you think you should be able to solo the game without any gear?

I'd agree with your statement if we're talking about raid-gear in a MMO or something, but I completely disagree for standard gear that you most definitely get plenty of as you progress.

D2's problem was skills were too powerful and designed in a way to promote a cookie-cutter character plan. This game fixes that and makes you rely more on your gear.

The game does have some issues right now but so do most games of this type at launch. Look at EverQuest 2... horrible at launch but now it's a completely different game.

As said above, just wait until act 4 if you're complaining about variery.

[Blarg]

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Skills should be a utility, not a necessity.

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Haven't played this game, but in general, it's loot that should be a utility, not a necessity.

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So you think you should be able to solo the game without any gear?


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Well, I never said that. I don't think the answer to that is even particularly straightforward. If it's easy, then probably not. If it's extremely hard, then maybe getting by with minimal rather than end-game gear would be fine. Fun and challenge are the main factors, and having gear *or being given gear* are not challenges and don't add to the gameplay in and of themselves. It's what you do with what you've got that makes a game.

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I'd agree with your statement if we're talking about raid-gear in a MMO or something, but I completely disagree for standard gear that you most definitely get plenty of as you progress.


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Agreed, but I think you're smacking down a straw horse here. I didn't say every or all parts of a game should be soloable naked. Getting some gear at least would be inevitable. It's the MMO gear-centric philosophy you mention that bogs a game down in how many hours you put in, and makes it seem more like a job in the hours you need to put in to get past a low ceiling. We basically agree here.

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D2's problem was skills were too powerful and designed in a way to promote a cookie-cutter character plan. This game fixes that and makes you rely more on your gear.


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I don't agree here. D2's skills were designed in a way to make numerous choices effective. The alternative being ... that the choices don't matter because the skills aren't really effective? You see we're stuck in a quandary there, and it sounds like Hellgate took a path that doesn't fix anything, but is heavily hour-centric again.

That path also does nothing to avoid a cookie-cutter build. In fact, the entire point of these games for many people is to find the way to be the most powerful. So whether it's skills or gear that makes the difference, everyone will tend to converge on a few preferred solutions no matter what. Alternative: people use less effective builds. That's suitable mostly for a lark or the people who get good enough or curious enough to try most anything no matter how poor a choice. Those people are solidly in the minority.

And at least as long as twinking is possible, their first choice to gather gear for their "lesser" builds will still probably be a cookie-cutter build that has been proven effective.

So you see there's no way to prevent play styles and choices narrowing down as people figure out the puzzle of the game. That's the nature of gameplay itself.

The only divergence from that process that you see is in something like PvP or in RTS's where you figure out different strategies after everyone has mastered the first and most obvious ones. Against the game AI itself, you have a fixed rather than a moving target, and everyone tries to pin it down and figure it out. There won't be an infinity of answers, regardless of whether the game makes skills or gear more essential.

But one model depends highly upon the hours you put in for you to express your skill and accomplish meaningful things within the game. That's the gear-dependent one. For people with nothing but time on their hands -- perhaps even regardless of their skill levels -- the gear-dependent model is the clear winner. For people who don't want to sink their whole lives into a game, the gear-dependent model is a big loser.

Still, there should be some reward for putting in massive hours. It just shouldn't impinge on those who don't, and doesn't need to be ridiculously over the top. Having useful and interesting skills will help keep the game interesting and balanced for all players. Higher levels of loot, of sufficient rarity, will reward the subset of players who are willing to grind away for many hours per week.

The slippery slope will be if new content is lazy. The most common way to introduce new content is not to really add variety at all, in either environment nor challenges, just better loot that outdates everything before it. Especially if that takes groups or guilds to get, the game will turn into a classic MMORPG model, and the classes will eventually all blur together into a grey soup.

[Thanir]

It seems the Asian servers of HGL are fubared. They tried to apply patch 0 to the servers and after 2 weeks of trying they determined they cannot just add the patch. Instead they have to a complete wipe of the servers, meaning the Asian players lose everything they have done up to this point.

Must say I'm blown away by this, as after so many online games have come through the pipeline how could their patching system be so antiquated? Even when just doing our US patches, the patching process seems pretty useless. I still get error msg saying I'm missing a language file, but the patching process doesn't see it, nor fix it. I'm pretty sure that even old systems like EQ1 would fix the file via their program checking process. I'm just shocked at the lack of preparation for this game.

Asian servers getting wiped article

[LeapFrog]

Ug, thats a joke. You are telling me that the database corruption is so bad you can't do any form of migration? All the backups are corrupted, you can't even restore from say day 5? Yeah right, but why spend 40 man hours (if that) doing some db tweaking when you don't care about your customers. Christ I could probably migrate from old to new using just SQL.

So have they fixed the bug with the engineer drone losing weapons yet? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Thanir]

yes they have, the bots keep the weap and their stats now