Small Aces in SB in Limped Pot...

[Motorcycle Mike]

OK here's something I'm struggling to wrap my little no limit-convert brain around...

How do you limit guys *normally* play small, offsuit Aces (we'll use A2-A7 in this case) out of the small blind in a LIMPED pot?

I'm thinking even with one limper, but let me know how your thinking changes with multiple limpers. I'll also qualify this is for a low stakes, 1/2 LHE player, so please take the SSRT "Small Stakes Rake Tax" into consideration.

I've read a few books where it says "In a limped pot, play any hand you would play from the button.", but I guess I'm thinking that the more limpers there are, the less value a small, offsuit Ace has, especially OOP.

Is this a normal default play in LHE though???

[FlopYouDead]

In general, I'm looking for any excuse to fold Axo pf. OOP, I'm looking that much harder. Unplayable hand.

[Oink]

1) stop folding
2) ??
3) profit

Easy calls preflop. Even in high rake games

The spots were I fold is when an aggro player is in the BB who is gonna raise a lot.

[Motorcycle Mike]

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In general, I'm looking for any excuse to fold Axo pf. OOP, I'm looking that much harder. Unplayable hand.

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This was my thinking before, too, but I thought that was just due to my NL background. In LHE, it almost seems like any ace is more powerful (and/or less dangerous) than at NLH. I don't know if I'm explaining that correctly or not. I just mean that you are more likely to win with just an Ace high hand at showdown because you are more likely to SEE a SD with just ace high.


[ QUOTE ]

1) stop folding
2) ??
3) profit

Easy calls preflop. Even in high rake games

The spots were I fold is when an aggro player is in the BB who is gonna raise a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I KNEW there was going to be somebody good from the "Heck yeah you play those" camp!

I agree that the BB wanting to come over the top for a raise intstead of just playing nicely is a huge variable that I missed, so thanks for catching that.

Oink, you have a great " "Random Empirical Observation" "post that I have studied, and I'm wondering if you found out anything like this:

Med offsuit aces (A6-7) playing better against a single limper due to the Ace/medium kicker being enough to win, and smaller (A2-A5) aces being better multi-way due to the wheel potential or weird, 2 pair power?

Thanks again for the replys so far!

[Oink]

I dont have enough empirical data to tell you anything meaningfull

Id say that A5 > A6 in a multiway pot. Even HU A5 > A6. (Note when you use stove it chooses A5 before A6 when expanding ranges)

But your odds are better of course multiway.

I just complete all of them no matter the odds. Contrary to what people say I think they play easy postflop. Sure they suffer from RIO but no one is forcing you to call down a turn raise on a A76T 3 flush turn in a protected pot.

As long as you dont fall in love with your TP and know how to play A3 on T73 flop 3-way you will do fine.


The quote you used in your OP is from Sklanskys book btw, right?

Remember that the advice you get in that book is for full ring live games. They consider a FR game tight if it "only" has 4 to a flop on average!!!

Todays online games are so different.

They are tougher - which means you need to push more small edges

The pots are more often HU or 3-way. Which means semibluffing, hand reading and thin valuebetting becomes more important. But it also means that RIO is less of an issue with Axo and Kxo hands.

The nutpeddling nit style advocated in Sklansky and Millers book is close to useless IMO when you get above 0.5/1 online

Go pick up Stox book and a membership to either Deucescracked.com or Stoxpoker.com

[Motorcycle Mike]

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The quote you used in your OP is from Sklanskys book btw, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it's from Limit Hold'em: Winning Short-Handed Strategies


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Go pick up Stox book and a membership to either Deucescracked.com or Stoxpoker.com

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I've got (and read) the Stox book. I'm on my second read now. I heard it might be on the loose side for the level I'm at now though. I've tightened up my default openers from his chart.

Do you feel a Stox membership is better than a CR membership for a new/lower level player ? I know Schneids is awesome and all, but I'm a far cry from his hand reading ability! I wonder if it's the similar to me trying to adapt the Green Plastic LAG style at micro NL games - You need skillz to make it work that most newbies don't have!

[Oink]

For newcomers I'd say that both Stox and DC is way better than CR

I am affiliated with DC so of course I will recomend that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Motorcycle Mike]

I'll check them both out then!

Thanks again for the replys guys. I really appreciate the help! I'm doing very well in the other spots, but seem to be hemorrhaging money in the blinds. I've been working on my blind play a lot, so hopefully that will turn around!