KJs from BB in a 3-bet pot

janne_oksanen · #1 10-13-2007, 11:51 PM

My session reviewer told me I should post this hand here. I can only assume I totally blew it so let's hear how stupid this was. As far as reads go, UTG was playing at vpip > 50% and the re-raiser was over 60%. It was a pretty wild table overall.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) HERO is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, HERO calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (18.4SB, 6 players)
HERO bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, HERO calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (14.2BB, 5 players)
HERO checks, UTG bets, 2 folds, CO raises, HERO calls, UTG calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (20.2BB, 3 players)
HERO checks, UTG checks, CO checks.

Results:
Final pot: 20.2BB

bozlax · #2 10-13-2007, 11:55 PM

You told us VPIP, what about PFR? If by "wild" you mean aggressive, then I'm capping this pf.

If you're going to bet the flop, you need to 3bang when one of the nutbags gives you the opportunity. Otherwise you shold try for a c/r, esp if you didn't cap pf.

The rest of the hand plays diff if you're more aggro on the first two streets.

janne_oksanen · #3 10-14-2007, 12:03 AM

pfr: 16% for UTG and 25% for the re-raiser

Fantam · #4 10-14-2007, 08:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
pfr: 16% for UTG and 25% for the re-raiser

[/ QUOTE ]

I was the Session reviewer, and I think that the table was quite loose and a little bit agressive at times.

When considering the above stats, I think that it might help to be aware that this was based upon a small number of hands for the above players.

UTG - 31 hands
CO - 8 hands

I have a few questions:

1. What do you think was the best play preflop ?

2. As played, what do you think was the best line to take on the flop ?

3. As played, what would you have done on the turn ?

Fun question :

4. What hand ranges would you have given both of the villains ?

Mitke · #5 10-14-2007, 12:05 PM

* grunch *

Preflop:
Good IMO, monster pot brewing and your hand plays good in those. Your position relative to the preflop raiser isn't really optimal if drawing, although in a family pot it might not matter as much.

Flop:
Hmm. You hit TP2K, no backdoors. I'd check this, hoping it gets checked to CO and then raise possibly getting some folds in between us. Or check and see what develops and try the same on a safe turn card, provided CO shows aggression on the flop. I believe this line would maximise the chance of getting more folds which in this big pot would be desirable.

Turn:
Hmm, CO was willing to raise the whole field on flop and raises on the turn as well. Looks like an overpair or we are outkicked. Getting to showdown seems to cost us at least 3BB. If UTG just calls and river doesn't get raised we are getting something like 20-21:3 or ~7:1 to showdown. And that's assuming the action dies down. Given the loose opposition I might call this down if the action cools down.

scpi10 · #6 10-14-2007, 12:06 PM

grunch

Going for a c/r on the flop might be a better play instead of leading out.
I don't think you have enough outs on the turn to call 2 bets.

janne_oksanen · #7 10-15-2007, 02:03 AM

Any guesses as to what the opponents had before I spoil it for you?

Bulletproof Monk · #8 10-15-2007, 02:36 AM

well logically CO looks like QQ/KK/AA/disc AJ

UTG looks like J9/79s or a weirdly played straight with fps. most likely J9 tho

scpi10 · #9 10-15-2007, 02:46 AM

UTG has QJ [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] CO has QQ+

Man of Means · #10 10-15-2007, 11:29 AM

3-bet the flop. Valuuuu. Note that in huge pots (multiway with 12+ bets) you can be aggressive with impunity, especially on the flop because you want to increase your chance of winning and you have a large probability overlay for the occasions you are behind in this hand.

I don't like what happened on the turn, partly because (a) you under-repped your hand on the flop and opened the door for their aggression and (b) don't have enough information about the strength of their holdings.

You give these guys a chance to outplay you either by making you fold the turn OR possibly getting squeezed for more bets with a 2nd or 3rd best hand.