Why coaching when there are videos?

Cueballmania · #1 10-21-2007, 05:27 PM

I'm a limit player converting to NL. What are the advantages of getting a coach as opposed to studying videos? It seems watching videos is a lot cheaper and the time commitment is more flexible. Thanks.

Joe Tall · #2 10-21-2007, 05:36 PM

I have to say that getting both is the best way. If you work with a coaching and are watching videos you are headed down the right path. This works for anything in life, like school. There are plenty of lesson to learn from books, videos, articles, etc but getting a coach can personalize this and make sure you are applying the concepts you learn correctly. Watching videos is cheaper but having the interaction with a coach can be priceless.

pig4bill · #3 10-21-2007, 08:40 PM

If you ask questions of a video, it doesn't answer back.

Joe Tall · #4 10-23-2007, 06:24 AM

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If you ask questions of a video, it doesn't answer back.

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It's a bit more than that. I tailor make my coaching sessions according to the student and where I feel they need the most improvement. I use all different methods from phone to IM to email and all sorts of tools, from PT to PokerStove to giving reading homework. You can't get that form a video but I do try to put some of it into my videos.

pig4bill · #5 10-24-2007, 03:14 AM

Actually, I don't seem to get much out of watching videos. I can watch one 10 times and don't feel like I know anything more than before.

Life · #6 10-25-2007, 03:06 PM

Im looking for a limit coach for 15/30+. How can i go about looking for a coach? What prices should I expect to pay?

Joe Tall · #7 10-25-2007, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im looking for a limit coach for 15/30+. How can i go about looking for a coach? What prices should I expect to pay?

[/ QUOTE ]

Expect to pay in the ~$200/hr range for a coach at that level but there are a lot of deals that offer discounts and, from experience, my "hour" is never 1-hour (usually about 1.5, I spew at the mouth!). Entity, DeathDonkey and I all coach on the side if you are interested you can find further details by emailing: support@deucescracked.com. There is an old coaching list posted in MHSH: Look Here.

WiltOnTilt · #8 10-26-2007, 12:47 AM

The thing about videos is you can watch, think you have a concept down, try to implement it and it blows up in your face... so you can be left with asking questions like "did I forget to take something into consideration or did I just run into the top of their range? Should I even try this again at my stakes/with my image/at my table position/etc?"

These are the types of questions that never get answered from a video. If you try to post the question on a forum to get the answer you have to dance through minefield to hopefully get a correct answer... or worse you don't correctly explain the situation so even the "correct" answer is wrong or doesn't apply.

These are things that a coach can identify for you in real time. The coach is there, he knows the situation, he knows the image considerations and he can tell you which variables need to change to make it a good/marginal/bad play.

When I'm coaching my students I'll often say things like "now if he was more aggressive we'd do XYZ instead" or "if our image was tighter/looser/more aggro/passive we'd have to check/bet/raise/fold whatever instead. The idea is that we're tailoring the exact situation for the exact play and if the coach is doing a good job he's giving you guidelines for future slightly different scenarios.

Again these are things that can be tough for a video to convey... and if the student reaches a similar situation in the future he can always IM me and say "remember concept ABC -- would this be a good spot given XYZ?"

Having the coach tell you what to do is just the start -- having a coach that explains the "why" including which variables need to change to change the strategy is where the real value comes in from coaching. I've never seen a video that does that.

Videos are still very valuable, but you have to take them for what they are. As JoeTall said they aren't the end all, be all. The combination of coaching + videos is what seems to give the best results.

WoT

reemas · #9 10-28-2007, 01:06 PM

Im looking for a coach but i play at the micro levels (nl25). I probably have a few small leaks that prevent me from having a winrate high enough to move up.

Is coaching a good idea at this level and what should I expect to pay?

WiltOnTilt · #10 10-28-2007, 03:31 PM

IMO you should be able to use free/inexpensive resources to build up your game such that you can make it to at least NL50 or NL100 before hiring a coach. If you're adamant about getting a coach (maybe you learn better through verbal methods?) then I'd think you could find a NL200 or NL400 winner willing to coach you for $75-$100/hr.

Mostly though I think if you read/post a lot of poker forums, watch the videos, and find some poker friends to discuss hands with on AIM it would probably be a more cost effective solution.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you can't move up from NL25 you probably have more than a few leaks stopping you from moving up. A coach could identify these very quickly but you'll have to shell out several buyins per hour in order to get that info...which could probably be obtained very cheaply through other methods.

If you have an extra big bankroll and you want to get on the fast track to moving up then a coach is a great idea even for a NL25 player...but you need to do it with the intention of front loading a couple thousand on multiple intense coaching sessions per week. If you're in that position it would be worth hiring a coach. If you don't have a bunch of disposable money then I'd work more on your game through the free/cheap methods.

Let me know if you have any other questions.