The immigration issue (YouTube Republican debate)

[Taso]

So what's everyone bitching about then? I always assumed illegals didn't pay taxes.

[pvn]

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So what's everyone bitching about then?

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Some combination of "smell brown people, I don't like them, they're probably going to rob me" and "THEY TOOK ARRR JERBS"?

[vhawk01]

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So what's everyone bitching about then?

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Some combination of "smell brown people, I don't like them, they're probably going to rob me" and "THEY TOOK ARRR JERBS"?

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Yeah, the problem is, at least some of the time, this last complaint is entirely true. So I get to suffer because some douchebag is (legitimately) afraid of being outcompeted. Sucks for me.

[Thug Bubbles]

is there any discussion of reforming the path for legal citizenship?

Also, aside from security issues, is there truely any justifiable reason to dislike immigration? I ask people "Why should I want a random american whom i've never met have better opportunities than a random foreigner living in america whom i've never met?" I'm usually met with blank stares.

[Moseley]

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is there any discussion of reforming the path for legal citizenship?

Also, aside from security issues, is there truely any justifiable reason to dislike immigration? I ask people "Why should I want a random american whom i've never met have better opportunities than a random foreigner living in america whom i've never met?" I'm usually met with blank stares.

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You're just not genetically wired like most. For instance, most humans believe in a God, while those wired differently do not.
You probably do not have a "love for country" and deep appreciation of what our soldiers who died in WWII sacrificed.

There are many people like you. They do not see the U.S.A. as a country they love, but merely an opportunity. Their primary goal in life is to be a successful capitalist and giving to charity without self-benefit is looked upon by them with scorn.

Others are wired differently.

Your type of philosophy is what was needed in generals in the military during WWII....it was easier for them to send a bunch of random Americans into a battle knowing half of them would not come out alive.

[bkholdem]

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is there any discussion of reforming the path for legal citizenship?

Also, aside from security issues, is there truely any justifiable reason to dislike immigration? I ask people "Why should I want a random american whom i've never met have better opportunities than a random foreigner living in america whom i've never met?" I'm usually met with blank stares.

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No kidding. I think it is basically 'patriotic' (whatever that is- and this is coming from soneone who used to have 'it' at least to some degree) brainwashing. It is a vague concept that is I think hard to articulate, and most people who 'have it' have never even reasoned why they should have it and why it is better than other ways of looking at the world and the human population of the world, let alone actively debated why it is superior. I think it will all come down to rhetoric if they tried.

When I asked my father a similar question a while back during a discussion about immigration (mine was why should I care about a random person born in locatioin A more than a random person born in location B?) His acutal response was: "I don't even know what that means." LOL

[vhawk01]

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So what's everyone bitching about then? I always assumed illegals didn't pay taxes.

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Exactly. And of course its convenient to preted like they dont pay taxes so that we can kick them all out for other reasons.

[bkholdem]

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So what's everyone bitching about then? I always assumed illegals didn't pay taxes.

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Exactly. And of course its convenient to preted like they dont pay taxes so that we can kick them all out for other reasons.

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I always assumed they didn't either, but that was before I actually knew any. Up until 5 years or so ago I always assumed that almost everyone I saw of brown skin was here legally, and that it might be temporary and it might be permanent, but that if it was temporary or permanent they had some kind of permission from the government to work if they were working. I assumed that if anyone who did not have the proper permission to work here (SS Card or whatever the government gives out to visitors) that they MUST BE working under the table if in fact they were working. Because, after all, every job I went to asked for my SS Card and other ID's and everyon I knew had SS Cards and ID's. So I always assumed it was very hard to get a permanent job without one.

I knew it was possible, but usually intermittently working as an extra on a construction crew or something like that. Like an on call person when they are short a guy.

Now I know many, many illegal immigrants and they all (save a few in the minority) get paid by check and have all the taxes taken out just like everyone else. Really. I didn't really think that was possible (based on my prior experience) until I met them and became friends with them and learned first hand. I have dozens of friends who are illegal immigrants now. All work or have a spouse that works (mostly all both work 40+ hrs a week), and almost all pay taxes. None file tax returns. The govt keeps the SS money for their kitty, and doesn't have to pay back any fed or state returns to them. That is the common reality.

If they could get some job under the table for the same or similar wages most probably would, but then so would I. The reality is that there are not many permanent jobs out there that pay cash under the table.

There are, however, many jobs that are quite lax with the paperwork requirements prior to hiring. I never knew this prior to befrending illegal immigrants.