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#72
12-20-2006, 11:07 PM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
See, the thing about ESPN is that since 2000 or so, to be on TV there you have to take a side on every argument and defend your side like you are defending your daughter's life from the demons of intelligence and reason. Most arguments have a side that is clearly correct, but someone has to take the other side, and that's where Skip Bayless comes in.
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#73
12-20-2006, 11:12 PM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
[ QUOTE ]
Nash is not necessarily the best player on Phoenix Phoenix is not necessarily the best team in the NBA [/ QUOTE ] Nash is clearly the best player on Phoenix. Phoenix is the hottest team in the NBA. Whether they are the best is debatable.
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#74
12-20-2006, 11:41 PM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Nash is not necessarily the best player on Phoenix Phoenix is not necessarily the best team in the NBA [/ QUOTE ] Nash is clearly the best player on Phoenix. Phoenix is the hottest team in the NBA. Whether they are the best is debatable. [/ QUOTE ] He's the best, but it isn't as close as you think Amare's PER is very close and he plays better defense. Since Nash has a lot more minutes he has been more valuable. Marion is also close and has played more MPG and more games and also plays better defense. You claim PER undervalues Nash is foresight, but almost everyone else claims its flaws in defense evaluation are most apparent. The question of who is more valuable is relative to replacement level. I don't know much about replacement level for NBA positions.
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#75
12-21-2006, 12:29 AM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
skip arguing with those two black guys "the stews" was borderline retarded today. Rumor is, that after the show, they had an orgy, along with that flamboyant douchy host that doesn't know a football from his man-dildo.
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#76
12-21-2006, 01:07 AM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
I think Nash is under-rated defensively, he takes tons of charges, creates deflections, makes smart double teams etc. Amare is big and block shots, but he makes many more defensive mistakes than Nash or Marion.
As far as PER goes, one of their big games recently (Sacramento) nash forced 5 huge turnovers down the stretch in the fourth quarter, and I think PER would only credit him for a couple of them. He's not perfect, but no-one is. I just saw Kobe totally give up playing defense against Chicago in the 4th quarter. But I watch almost every game, and he's clearly the most valuable player on the team. When he goes out, the team gets dramatically worse. Their offense is totally driven by Nash's decisions. He instantly identifies what the defense is trying to do and almost always makes the perfect pass or penetration against it. I doubt any point guard in the league could run the Suns as well. For example, even if Chris Paul made the same smart passes, he doesn't shoot as high a percentage, not from the field, the line, or from three point range, so he simply couldn't be as valuable.
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#77
12-21-2006, 01:24 AM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
[ QUOTE ]
I think Nash is under-rated defensively, he takes tons of charges, creates deflections, makes smart double teams etc. Amare is big and block shots, but he makes many more defensive mistakes than Nash or Marion. [/ QUOTE ] Fair enough [ QUOTE ] As far as PER goes, one of their big games recently (Sacramento) nash forced 5 huge turnovers down the stretch in the fourth quarter, and I think PER would only credit him for a couple of them. [/ QUOTE ] Why? [ QUOTE ] But I watch almost every game, and he's clearly the most valuable player on the team. When he goes out, the team gets dramatically worse. Their offense is totally driven by Nash's decisions. He instantly identifies what the defense is trying to do and almost always makes the perfect pass or penetration against it. I doubt any point guard in the league could run the Suns as well. For example, even if Chris Paul made the same smart passes, he doesn't shoot as high a percentage, not from the field, the line, or from three point range, so he simply couldn't be as valuable. [/ QUOTE ] I think the Suns would be very similar if not better with Chris Paul. This is purely hypothetical so there is not much more I can add outside of my opinion. I'm not arguing Paul should be the MVP. I'm arguing that other should be and FWIW there teams are more dependent one player them than the Suns Lebron Dirk Chauncey Yao Wade Redd Garnett Artest Duncan Arenas Kobe Nash
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#78
12-21-2006, 04:59 AM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
I think I'm going to start a thread about professional curling leagues in Zaire. over / under on posts until it deteriorates into a Nash debate? I mean, this is a really classic example. A 7 month old thread gets ninja bumped and BOOM: NASH TIME.
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#79
12-21-2006, 05:29 AM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
[ QUOTE ]
See, the thing about ESPN is that since 2000 or so, to be on TV there you have to take a side on every argument and defend your side like you are defending your daughter's life from the demons of intelligence and reason. Most arguments have a side that is clearly correct, but someone has to take the other side, and that's where Skip Bayless comes in. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah this is a good point. It's annoying how everything on ESPN is so black and white. For example: Common Sportcenter "Kiki, how do you feel the nuggets will do with AI? Kiki: "They will make the finals." "Stephen A, what do you think" Stephen A: (shouting) "They'll lose in the first round." Then they debate like douches, 20 minutes later, then they bring in 2 more idiots with no more knowledge than you or I and do the same thing,...why can't someone ever say "I dont [censored] know, and who really cares." I swear it gets so assinine.
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#80
12-21-2006, 12:08 PM
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Re: Skip Bayless is the stupidest man alive
[ QUOTE ]
As far as PER goes, one of their big games recently (Sacramento) nash forced 5 huge turnovers down the stretch in the fourth quarter, and I think PER would only credit him for a couple of them. [/ QUOTE ] Why? [/ QUOTE ] Deflections. Forcing his man into a bad situation, double team. [ QUOTE ] I think the Suns would be very similar if not better with Chris Paul. This is purely hypothetical so there is not much more I can add outside of my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] Chris Paul can't shoot the three. That allows defenders to pack it in against Amare. That makes the defense worse. Chris Paul has hops, is much more explosive than Steve Nash, can dunk, but none of those things improve this offense. Steve Nash can score all day in the lane, despite only having an 8 inch vertical. [ QUOTE ] I'm not arguing Paul should be the MVP. I'm arguing that other should be and FWIW there teams are more dependent one player them than the Suns [/ QUOTE ] I've already written at length about the incompleteness of ratings systems. But let's just look at offcourt/oncourt scoring differential. Arenas +29 Duncan +17.4 Artest +17.3 Nash +16.7 Wade +13.6 LeBron + 6.6 Nowitzki +12 Billups +11.3 Garnett +10.2 Redd +9.9 Bryant +8.5 Yao +3.7 By that stat alone I see two MVP candidates, Duncan and Nash. Wade, Arenas and Artest are on terrible teams with no talent, so it's easier for them to score high here. Arenas also plays in the east, as does Wade, where the talent level in general is terrible. Both Duncan and Nash make a huge difference on very talented teams. Nowitski & Billups are close though. Though you could say that Arena's differential is so damn amazing you have to consider him an MVP candidate. Even with the crappy talent there, +29 is incrediable.
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