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  #21  
Old 05-03-2007, 04:41 AM
lautzutao lautzutao is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

The SB in your hand's obviously an idiot(a good thing of course[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) calling an AI w/ middle pair, so why would you want to steal from him? Think of how many hands he folded that you could have possibly played against him after the flop before this particular hand came up.

I find it very rare in games at the micro limits to have two players to my left that are so tight that I'd want to raise w/ hands like J8s and not get to see a flop.

If anything I'd raise w/ crap that's almost unplayable postflop.
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  #22  
Old 05-03-2007, 04:46 AM
Fiksdal Fiksdal is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

[ QUOTE ]

If anything I'd raise w/ crap that's almost unplayable postflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Think of how many hands he folded that you could have possibly played against him after the flop


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting limping the speculative hands on the button?
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  #23  
Old 05-03-2007, 05:06 AM
lautzutao lautzutao is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting limping the speculative hands on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why potentially drive out terrible blind players for 1/100th of their stack when you can limp and potentially take all of it? *shrugs*

Just something to think about.
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  #24  
Old 05-03-2007, 05:56 AM
guitarizt guitarizt is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

Find your own style. I like to play a solid game with 4+ people at the table, pretty much giving up when my cbets are called and not try anything too tricky. 3 handed or hu I do whatever I feel like and I get more aggressive. I found if I try to do this when the table's more than 3 handed I get myself into trouble a lot and it leads to a high variance style that I don't like.
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  #25  
Old 05-03-2007, 06:58 AM
crushednuts crushednuts is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

look at what stealing alot accomplished in the J8 hand. He got the SB to start calling OOP w/ marginal hands. I don't think there is a better way to get someones stack than playing raised pots in position with better hands than them consistently. Calling never stops me from stealing. The only thing that slows me down is if I get 3bet light.
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  #26  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:02 AM
lexxor lexxor is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

Im on 0.34 BB/Hand on nl10 (filtered to Attempt to Steal & Raised (409 hands))
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  #27  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:19 AM
bozzer bozzer is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

at 10nl I ran at 0.89 BB/hand when I had a chance to steal and raised (400 hands). obviously i ran good, but blind stealing is sooooooooo profitable. in the hand OP quoted above I would raise the donk bet since it's likely it's a blocker for a FD. That is definately profitable at 10nl. You can still make money stealing blinds if you don't do that sort of thing though.

according to PT I attempted to steal the blinds ~40% of the time.
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:24 AM
ciro bonano ciro bonano is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

[ QUOTE ]
at 10nl I ran at 0.89 BB/hand when I had a chance to steal and raised (400 hands). blind stealing is sooooooooo profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]If I understand correctly what lautzutao is saying, you don't know if it's profitable. If the blinds fold a lot to your raises but do stack off with middle pair it might be even more +EV than your 0.9BB/hand to limp and get a shot at their stack every hand (which of course is more difficult as the pot is smaller, but we assume they are donkeys anyway). I don't think it is, in general, but if I can flop top pair and stack somebody with it I might need to limp some more.
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2007, 10:02 PM
ben wb ben wb is offline
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Default Re: is stealing the blinds +ev in $10nl?

I think blind stealing is hugely +ev at $10nl, my attempt to steal blinds at nl10 is about 36% and profit is 0.54BB/hand.

It's not just about stealing the blinds, it's about playing raised pots in position against players you can outplay post flop, that's one reason raising is much better than limping on the button because it's far easier to stack someone in a raised pot and the fish do not adapt well tosomeone raising a lot in late position, Fiksdal is right, villain's get angry that they can't see cheap flops and start playing even worse and as the pots are bigger their mistakes are bigger. I've had plenty of players accuse me of raising every hand so they do notice but they don't know what to do about it and start calling down with weak hands in big pots and throw their money away.

Here's a hand where I was called on the river with ace high and I know this was because villain had seen me raise about half of the last 20 hands (it was 3 handed) and decided he wasn't going to fold this time. Probably could have raised more on the river.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 3 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $22.05
BB: $9.80
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $14.15</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $0.40</font>, SB folds, BB calls $0.30

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($0.85) (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.60</font>, BB calls $0.60

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($2.05) (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">River:</font> ($2.05) (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $1</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3</font>, BB calls $2

Pot Size: $8.05 ($0.35 Rake)

BB had and LOST (-$4)
Hero had (three of a kind, Sevens) and WON (+$3.70)

After that he tilted away most of the rest of his stack.

I'm sure I get called a lot more with my monster hands now than when I didn't steal the blinds very often.
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