River scare card hits and villain shoves.

[alavet]

i think in any nuts on the flop you should pot flop.
flops values is too small comparing with turn and river. if they are going to call you they have a tons of implied odds to do it. Additional 4$ dont have matter usually.

betting 3\4 is still nice

and, you have to fold. sorry

[Ribbo]

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I've long ago given up on trying to bet to induce bluff raises or bad value raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more aggressively then, people start to play back at you lots of times.

[Kala1928]

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I've long ago given up on trying to bet to induce bluff raises or bad value raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more aggressively then, people start to play back at you lots of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

They already do. I agree that if the pot was say bigger it would make sense to bet less than the pot but to pot this small it just doesn't seem worth it. I want to build the pot when its far away from us being allin and I have the nuts with a really good redraw. And no I won't play more aggressively, I play more aggressively than the whole forum combined already.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've long ago given up on trying to bet to induce bluff raises or bad value raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more aggressively then, people start to play back at you lots of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

They already do. I agree that if the pot was say bigger it would make sense to bet less than the pot but to pot this small it just doesn't seem worth it. I want to build the pot when its far away from us being allin and I have the nuts with a really good redraw. And no I won't play more aggressively, I play more aggressively than the whole forum combined already.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the opposite is true, if the pot was bigger it makes more sense to bet the pot. Half pot bets in big pots look like very strong hands who aren't scared of callers. Pot bets look like anything, including all the semi-bluff hands like nut flush draws and outside straight draws with top pair.
On the most part, the only real way to get played back at is to raise preflop (be more aggressive). This way your bet post flop looks like a C-Bet rather than someone who has actually nailed the flop.

[KaponoFor3]

This hand is absolutely sick.

I think the turn play is very telling here. CO must have made his hand at this point to call your three bet I would figure. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me for him to be on a flush draw with this board, though it is possible that he has already made the straight and has the nut flush draw as well I suppose. His push on the river is standard regardless of what he has. How sick is that river card, that's like the worst card you could have asked for.

In the end, I guess I would probably fold, but do so in a way that made me sick.

[Kala1928]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've long ago given up on trying to bet to induce bluff raises or bad value raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more aggressively then, people start to play back at you lots of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

They already do. I agree that if the pot was say bigger it would make sense to bet less than the pot but to pot this small it just doesn't seem worth it. I want to build the pot when its far away from us being allin and I have the nuts with a really good redraw. And no I won't play more aggressively, I play more aggressively than the whole forum combined already.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the opposite is true, if the pot was bigger it makes more sense to bet the pot. Half pot bets in big pots look like very strong hands who aren't scared of callers. Pot bets look like anything, including all the semi-bluff hands like nut flush draws and outside straight draws with top pair.
On the most part, the only real way to get played back at is to raise preflop (be more aggressive). This way your bet post flop looks like a C-Bet rather than someone who has actually nailed the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Because if the pot was bigger you'd need less pot bets to be allin, while the pot is very small you need more pot bets to get allin, thus its pays off more to bet more while the pot is small. (google for "building the pot")
You also need to think about stuff like average pot size frequency after which it is clear that doing something like betting 1/2 vs full pot in a tiny pot has very little monetary +EV value because of the tiny pot whereas doing the same thing in a big pot has a lot higher monetary +EV because its impact in dollars is a lot bigger (big pots occur far more rarely than small pots, thus the "pot size frequency").
And there are no flushdraws or any other semibluff hands on this flop unless your opponent is retarted and oop raises with dry J9.
And as a final part I'm just gonna say that while its allright to get people to play back at you its not very profitable way to maximize your profits to try and get people to play back at you vs. making solid valuebets vs solid hands and just being honest that if you opponent doesn't hit a flop there is not much value to be made. Trying to get people to play back too often is a very bad form of FPS.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've long ago given up on trying to bet to induce bluff raises or bad value raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more aggressively then, people start to play back at you lots of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

They already do. I agree that if the pot was say bigger it would make sense to bet less than the pot but to pot this small it just doesn't seem worth it. I want to build the pot when its far away from us being allin and I have the nuts with a really good redraw. And no I won't play more aggressively, I play more aggressively than the whole forum combined already.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the opposite is true, if the pot was bigger it makes more sense to bet the pot. Half pot bets in big pots look like very strong hands who aren't scared of callers. Pot bets look like anything, including all the semi-bluff hands like nut flush draws and outside straight draws with top pair.
On the most part, the only real way to get played back at is to raise preflop (be more aggressive). This way your bet post flop looks like a C-Bet rather than someone who has actually nailed the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Because if the pot was bigger you'd need less pot bets to be allin, while the pot is very small you need more pot bets to get allin, thus its pays off more to bet more while the pot is small. (google for "building the pot")

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL @ 'google for building the pot'.

Firstly, I made no reference to how deep the players are, so I don't know why you are. I'm assuming both players have 10 billion bets each left.
It does not automatically pay off more to bet big when the pot is small. Players tend not to chase small pots or bluff at them with the frequency they do with large pots.
If you bet big in a small pot, opponents are more likely to fold if they have a medium strength hand such as bottom 2 pair, there just is no reason to make the pot big whilst not holding a big hand. So you have to coax them into the pot, whilst at the same time encouraging them to take a shot at it due to your weak looking bet.
My personal experience shows that if a player is bluffing at a big pot, he tends to bet the pot or close to it, so when you have a big hand, your bet should also be big.
Likewise in small pots when you do bluff it can be smaller as smart players wont want to get into a pot unless they have a playable hand. If nobody has anything then a half pot bet will get the same result as a full pot bet. So bets with good hands can also be half pot bets, as it usually take 5 pot bets to get all in anyway, you will need a raise from another player so giving your opponent a reason to raise you would help here. Half pot bets do that as it does not give away the strength of your hand.

Example: I'm UTG with top set, opponent is button with bottom set. From experience if I bet out half the pot, button will raise allowing me to reraise.
If I bet the pot here, button often calls rather than raises.
If I check, button will bet pot, allowing me to check raise.
Half pot bets look like a drawing hand, such as a flush draw or straight wrap, so when you make these bets out of position with strong made hands, you will get raised by weaker made hands allowing the pot to grow better.

I recommend you google for "building the pot"

[blainestar]

Ribbo your wrong.

[Ribbo]

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Ribbo your wrong.

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Play some more Omaha, maybe in 3 more years you will realise I am right.

[blainestar]

I will admit I'm not good at PLO but this is more general poker theory. I'm not going to get into an arguement with you, because it's as productive as bashing my head into a wall, but you have to realize it is possible that you are wrong sometimes.