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#1
04-27-2007, 06:04 PM
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L08 hand.
6-max table, UTG limps, you raise in cutoff with As2s9c7d, button 3-bets, both blinds call.
Flop is Ah2cTd. Check, check, check, to you... How do you feel about leading out versus checking? The advantage of leading out is that the button might raise and you might be in decent shape versus him, and his raise will likely drive some people out, which is great in a pot this big. The disadvantage is the button may have you in bad shape (w/ AA or AT usually), or one of the blinds may have you in bad shape, and by checking you may save some bets. 
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#3
04-27-2007, 07:39 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
close. do you have any reads on button? i tend to bet here, call a raise, but fold to a 3-bet. [/ QUOTE ] No reads. They are all solid players except for the limper. I agree it's close... checking here is so tempting because your hand is so iffy and if you check you can get away later for cheap. OTOH the pot is so big (12 small bets) that you can gain a ton of equity by leading out and getting raised. The reason I posted this hand is I'm starting to wonder if I play these situations too passively (marginal hand, big pot, chance to thin the field). I was curious if some people consider a lead out standard in these spots. One thing I overlooked in the heat of the hand was that it's extremely unlikely the button has AA since that would require both blinds to be calling a 3-bet cold without an ace in their hand (in addition to the fact that AA is a minority hand within button's 3-betting distribution in the first place.)
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#4
04-27-2007, 08:32 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
I would tend to think your 2 pair is ahead here more often than not, though you certainly don't want all three opponents going to the river with you. the pot is big, and you also have a bd straight draw so you def. want to see the turn. you want to bet here to give others a chance to drop, or have them face 2 cold by button raising.
given the size of the pot, and the fact that its 4 handed (rather than 6), i think you have enough equity here to aggressively protect your intertests
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#5
04-27-2007, 09:14 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
I would tend to think your 2 pair is ahead here more often than not, though you certainly don't want all three opponents going to the river with you. the pot is big, and you also have a bd straight draw so you def. want to see the turn. you want to bet here to give others a chance to drop, or have them face 2 cold by button raising. given the size of the pot, and the fact that its 4 handed (rather than 6), i think you have enough equity here to aggressively protect your intertests [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. I think leading out is best in this spot.
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#6
04-27-2007, 07:57 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
You must bet if checked to - lousy flop for your hand, but you can't let it check through. You obviously don't want to take this to the turn 3+ handed, so folding is better than calling if it looks you can't get it short handed.
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#7
04-27-2007, 08:09 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
You must bet if checked to - lousy flop for your hand, but you can't let it check through. You obviously don't want to take this to the turn 3+ handed, so folding is better than calling if it looks you can't get it short handed. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm... I flopped top and bottom pair here. I very likely have the current best hand (though not the best hand equity wise), so there's no way I am folding for one bet. Also imo there is close to a 0% chance the button will check here, given what his preflop 3-bet implies about his distribution. So the concern is not a free card but rather whether I want a bet-raise with such a brittle hand. The alternative is to check, letting other people into the pot, but also making it easier for me to get away from AT or something, or to get away on the turn or river if things go bad.
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#8
04-27-2007, 08:24 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
im unclear on how a c/c line helps you get away vs AT or AA.
I really dont like check call (unless the buttons bet gets out a lot of people). Id bet the flop, and I wouldnt be too shocked to see button flat call it, depending on his style.
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#9
04-27-2007, 09:13 PM
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Re: L08 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
im unclear on how a c/c line helps you get away vs AT or AA. I really dont like check call (unless the buttons bet gets out a lot of people). Id bet the flop, and I wouldnt be too shocked to see button flat call it, depending on his style. [/ QUOTE ] As to your first point I meant a check-call for one bet, check-fold for two. Also check-calling for one bet in a multiway pot versus bet-calling for two bets and getting it heads up makes it a lot easier to correctly fold the turn or river. I definitely agree that there is a strong chance button will just flat call, in that particular case it doesn't matter whether we are betting or checking. The only case where it matters is when he raises.
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