Live Cash Game ruling.... Crazy Pineapple hand

Hotrod0823 · #1 10-15-2007, 11:48 PM

Last night played in a bar tourney and after busted in 15th sat in the cash game that started up. It is a NL tourney but the cash game plays dealers choice. NL Omaha high, NL holdem or NL Pineapple or Crazy Pineapple,(whichever one you discard after the flop).

Anyway it is 1/2 blinds but plays pretty loose and fast. We were playing 11 handed and it was a pineapple hand with a 4.00 straddle.

Raise to 15, many callers, RR to 30 from the straddle and ends up being 5 to the flop. Stacks vary from 150-500. Dealer is out of the hand. I wasn't in the hand either and not familiar with Pineapple so I tend to fold many many hands when that game is called. Hence my question about rules.

Ok so the PF pot is somewhere around 150-160 bucks. Dealer deals the flop. It was pretty uncoordinated, checks to the button and he is thinking about taking a stab that this pot. As players check they discard, usually in 1 motion.

Now action is on the button he is thinking, playing with chips, looking at his cards. Dealer is ancy and playing with the deck. He has a habit of buring early and was ready to deal the turn when some one on the end of the table declares he saw a 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and completely halts everything but at the same time the button checks but didn't discard.

2 things then happened. The guy with the view of the card is very knowledgeable and plays in this game regularily here and other places. He insists the 6 be shown and then shuffled into the stub. Meanwhile the button finally discards.

The SB then erupts. "why was the 6 shown then shuffled in. It wasn't the 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] it was the 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and it screws my hand." He wants his money back.

"I was playing my hand for that card and you took away my outs!!!" Ok so we now know he has 66.

"I want my 30 bucks back!!"

Table Captain asks the table if they agree, I was out and had no opinion, I barely know the rule of pineapple and just kept my mouth shut. The rest comply. It is decent size stakes but still mostly a friendly game.

Now another player at the table says the button's hand has to be dead. He didn't discard with his check and still had cards when the 6 was exposed. They say the rule is the discard has to come before the check. If you are betting then you can say bet, make they bet and then discard. Not sure why this is the rule but thats how they play. Is it standard? Should his hand be dead?

Also, some players wanted the 6 to remain as the turn card. Buttons hand was now dead and the 6 should remain. It didn't and play then continued.

Thoughts?

psandman · #2 10-15-2007, 11:56 PM

Couple of things.

Dealer needs kick in the nuts.

In Crazy pineapple you generally don't discard before you act, nobody should discard until all action is complete (this allows the dealer to better track the discards rather than just having them discarded willy nilly.

Third what do you mean the 6 Spades was exposed.as it still in the deck and exposed because [censored] dealer with riffling the deck or was it the burn card that dealer put down early and exposed as it was burned? If it wasn't already burned but it was the top card it should still be the burn..

If it was the burn it should be the burn regardless of if it was exposed.

Hotrod0823 · #3 10-16-2007, 12:01 AM

Dealer burned early was already on the table face down. The deck was and pinched or riffled and the top card, the TURN was exposed.

The discarding only comes before you check, usually players will say check as they motion to discard. IF they bet they can place out therr chips and then discard completing the action.

Players don't discard/check until it is on them. The act of discarding completed the action and play moves to the next player.

psandman · #4 10-16-2007, 03:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The discarding only comes before you check, usually players will say check as they motion to discard. IF they bet they can place out therr chips and then discard completing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every player should act before any player discards. And it does make a difference has a players decision as to which card to discard could depend upon the action that occurs.

Dealer has to stop burning early. If your going to burn early you may as well not burn anyway.he turn crad being exposed early like this should be treated as an early burn turn. Action is completed, the prematurely exposed card the 6 is held aside, burn and turn. The players act on this card. After this action is completed the 6 is shuffled back into the stub and a river is dealt (no burn).

DavidNB · #5 10-16-2007, 11:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
NL Pineapple or Crazy Pineapple

[/ QUOTE ]

1St and biggest problem. Stay away from these home made games.

2nd problem burning a card early. You need to explain the purposes of burning a card.

Lottery Larry · #6 10-16-2007, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NL Pineapple or Crazy Pineapple

[/ QUOTE ]

1St and biggest problem. Stay away from these home made games.

[/ QUOTE ]

David, I don't think Pineapple is a "home made" game. They play it in card rooms on the West Coast, probably other card rooms as well.

Lottery Larry · #7 10-16-2007, 02:00 PM

Pineapple, you discard preflop. Crazy Pineapple is post-flop.

Thermonuclear (DPC-patent pending), you discard before the flop, turn AND river. That way, you'll have the best chance to throw away (in order) your winning set, then your winning flush :P

I think you should encourage people to continue throwing their cards away after their first action is done. YOU, however, should hold onto your cards until action is complete for the round.
Dealers need to be taught to look for the proper completion of action. KITN as the standard penalty for failure to avoid causing a ruckus.

As for the exposed card- it's the standard rule for hold'em, as already stated:

- Put the card aside
- Burn and turn the river as the new turn card.
- Shuffle the 6 and ONLY the 6 back into the stub, deal the river without burning a card.

DavidNB · #8 10-16-2007, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NL Pineapple or Crazy Pineapple

[/ QUOTE ]

1St and biggest problem. Stay away from these home made games.

[/ QUOTE ]

David, I don't think Pineapple is a "home made" game. They play it in card rooms on the West Coast, probably other card rooms as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, new to me, thought it was a home game twist

RR · #9 10-16-2007, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Every player should act before any player discards. And it does make a difference has a players decision as to which card to discard could depend upon the action that occurs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally you are right on these things, but I am going to take a stab that you have never played or dealt crazy pineapple in a casino. Typically the players will discard as they act on their hand, it helps them remember to do it. Occasionally someone will wait to see the action, but there isn't a long dramatic pause to discard. The dealer should say something as he taps the table but should only pause if someone says "stop."

psandman · #10 10-16-2007, 06:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Every player should act before any player discards. And it does make a difference has a players decision as to which card to discard could depend upon the action that occurs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally you are right on these things, but I am going to take a stab that you have never played or dealt crazy pineapple in a casino. Typically the players will discard as they act on their hand, it helps them remember to do it. Occasionally someone will wait to see the action, but there isn't a long dramatic pause to discard. The dealer should say something as he taps the table but should only pause if someone says "stop."

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I was trained to deal crazy pineapple in a casino this way. I opened a room which was trying to push a mixed game which included crazy pineapple. Perhaps I was trained wrong as I have very little nice to say about the management of that room.

I'm not saying that people don't discard early (as there would be no penalty for there doing so) and I think you seem to be suggesting in your post that a player is not required to discard prior to the action being completed (which would be consistent with my point, and would negate this nonsense of the button now having a fouled hand because he checked before he threw away his card).