Balancing Flop Caps

[James.]

we have two cards. there's some action preflop.

the pot is 3 handed on the flop.

the flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Assume that 4 bets is the cap. What is your 4bet range given the following parameters:

a)the action goes: an opponent bets, we raise, and our opponent 3bets(it's HU).

b)the action goes: bet, call, we raise and opponent 1 3bets(it's 3handed) and the other opponent calls? What about if the second opponent folds?

How is this range affected by your being OOP?

How are a) and b) affected by the action preflop? In other words, what hands that you raise preflop would you cap in situation a) and/or b)? What if our opponent(who has typical preflop standards) was the one that raised?

If you would do a certain action with a certain frequency, what frequency would you assign to each action?

How does a 5bet cap affect your decision?

I've left some information out to give you room to maneuver: for example you raise the button with QJ and the sb and bb call, etc.

[One Outer]

a) Cap range: OJs+, 87s, J8s, TT, 33, 99 in all situations. JJ+ most of the time depending on opponent, especially OOP because there are a lot of cards that can hit to kill my action but don't beat me. About 80% of the time against an unknown. I would raise all those hands except 33, J8 and 87. It doesn't change much for me if my opponent was the raiser as far as whether or not I cap the flop but it is going to change how I play the turn and river if I only pair up.

b) My capping range narrows a bit in this spot because with the other guy in I have to discount my overs a little. I'm still capping any set, QJs and J8s. I'm going to discount my overcard outs with KJs+ and depending on a read I'd probably slowdown with Axs as well. This is just for the purposes of counting outs. 87s becomes a call until I get there hand. I will cap QQ+ in this spot most of the time too because the board is so drawy.

All of my responses are with a five bet cap taken into account because that's the way it is at Canterbury Park. HU there is no cap so in example A let's say I stop at getting 5 bet and reevaluate on later streets.

[Hyperrrprank]

A.) 33, 99+, 78s+, QJ, 78(50%), A10(50%)
Being out of position affects this quite a bit. Most of the 50% listings I am not capping OOP, because my reason for putting in the extra bet is that I want to buy initiative on the next betting round. Most live players will rarely bet into the capping bettor with less than their top 20% percent of hands, and check a larger percentage of their draws. Capping a bit light can help get some information, might offer a free card, and if action gets especially heated on the turn we might be able to get away.

B.) Drop the lower end of the straight draw, and smaller flush draws from the range. It is too likely the caller is drawing to a flush or straight, and I don't want pay more to pull the weak end of one of these while he makes a stronger one. Add in two pair (910) however, since the pot is going to be padded a bit, and if no draws come in and it is unlikely the caller can beat this. Also add in some weaker top pair hands, A10 for sure, K10, Q10, and J10(25%). I'm pretty sure these hands are behind, but I'm not letting them go just yet and I want as much extra money in the pot if the turn improves them.

[jesse8888]

Grunch

I'm going to assume I am completely read-less:

a). HU I will cap the following hands: All sets, top 2, and OESFDs. I would also probably cap flush draws with gutters, and maybe A3s. I'll definitely do this if my opponent's action pf suggests a big pair (either a single raise by a LP or a 3 bet or cap by anyone else). I'm also capping AA always and usually KK and QQ (unless the pf action strongly suggests Aces, such as a limp re-raise). JJ I probably let go.

b)Confused by the second part of b, where the opponent folds out in the middle (isn't that the same situation we're in in A basically?). In this situation I'd cap every hand from above, and would probably add in "any two spade overs with the ace" For example, I'd cap AKs, AQs, AJs.

In situation B, a 5 bet cap doesn't affect me. In situation A, I'd probably leave off the flush draws with gutters and A3s if there was a 5 bet cap.

[BubbleMint]

A) 99,TT,KQs and OESFD. If pre flop suggested no big pairs, I would cap maybe 50% of the time AJs+

B) with a third person cold calling, I dont cap the AJs+ hands.

With a 5 bet cap I dont cap anything but top set on that board.

[James.]

initially, this post asks questions about a single topic, but every street is relevant to that question at hand. the concept at hand permeates the root of strategy in every limit hold em game.

all poker strategy is situational. some ranges in regard to this action(especially HU) can expand depending upon the specific opponent(or opponents) in the hand. for instance, HU against an opponent that is capable of giving some action early but still find a fold on a later street capping a wider range might be a profitable play. on the other hand, capping the same range against someone who shows down more frequently can be a significant loser. so ranges are fluid in relation to our opponents. but we know all of this.

so what we're really shooting for here is a default range against a typical player. it's a range that should have components that serve more than just one purpose.

first and foremost, the heaviest part of our flop 4bet range should be aim to solicit value. strong made hands/megadraws(straight flush/flush w/overs, etc.) that figure to be ahead of your opponents' ranges should be 4bet on the flop for value(or less often, but for other balancing purposes defer until the turn to raise; this however is another post for another time but reinforces my prior notion that this is relevant for all streets in hold em).

there are other ancillary considerations that should be noted in relation to the hand range with which you are capping the betting on any given street. more specifically, if you were only to cap the nuts or near nuts it makes it very easy for your opponents to read your range and allows them to play perfectly in relation to it. they will only give you action if they have you beat or if they have a draw to a hand that will beat you.

since poker is a struggle for calculated deception combined with gaining maximum information about your opponents' holdings(in accord with the fundamental theorem), it becomes necessary to adjust your capping range to reflect this(in this case your flop capping range). you should be capping a wide enough range with the proper frequency so that your opponent is forced into tough decisions. he must decide to give you action with a worse hand or risk folding the best hand(or a hand that has odds) too often. the largest part of this portion of your range is going to consist of drawing hands, the semibluffs. you must use these powerful weapons as a means to gain optimal action and unexploitable play at a heavily "discounted" price. for instance, when you cap a flush draw on the flop, due to the pot equity of your draw, it only costs a fraction of each bet for each raise that goes in rather than the entire bet. other reasons for 4betting, but to a lesser extent, might include when in position to gain a free card on the turn. this would be because you don't have a holding strong enough to merit a valuebet on the turn and most often a draw that profits tremendously from getting to the river if it doesn't come in on fourth street. the smallest portion of your flop capping range is going to consist of pure bluffs. it should be very small proportionately and only be done for fairly specific reasons. an example might be that you are pretty certain your opponent is on a draw(and maybe you are on one as well but even UI you have a worse 5 card poker hand) and as such the action unfolds in a way that you can consider a cap to further enable yourself to win the pot UI if your opponent doesn't complete his draw either.

so the way it breaks down is this. the largest portion of your range is strong made hands and powerful draws that hold their fair share(or close to it) in equity, the weaker semibluffs and least in proportion the pure bluffs. properly playing these hands in an optimum frequency allows you to enjoy the luxury of getting action on your very strong holdings and disguising your range against your opponent which should force your opponents into making worse decisions. this allows you an edge that exploits their play while alsoworking to keep yourself from being exploited in return. these mistakes are the root of our profit in hold em. the more that you induce, while at the same time avoiding making them yourself, the more you guarantee longterm success thanks to an unexploitable strategy.

i'll give my own ranges for these situations later. first i thought i would address the "universal" implictations that these types of decisions(and how game theory incorporates itself into them) in an effort to help us understand this is ultimately about more than simply a flop cap range. rather, it deals with an understanding of the importance of why we need to cap a hand like QJs in an effort to balance the times we have a hand like 99.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Bravo James, this is exactly the kind of discussion that this forum needs.

I will post some of my own thoughts soon.

[James.]

look forward to it jake. i'm going to give my exact range later as well.

what i want people to keep in mind is this. in a raised pot after a bet, raise and 3bet, if we cap we are offering our opponent effective odds of 2.6-1 on a calldown. so we want our range of made hands to draws to be similar to this ratio. that makes it unprofitable or close to zero ev for our opponent regardless of which option he chooses. that is the root of these types of decisions. play that is unexploitable by our opponent means they are the ones that are put to decisions that have no right answer. when this happens the ball is in our court and so will be the money.

[One Outer]

This thread is starting to excite me. I can't wait.

[KitCloudkicker]

i would cap with the ranges given my OneOuter et al. dont forget As3s too guys - thats an easy cap as well.

however, i would also cap with naked flush draws, OESD's, and gutshot+overcard+BDFD combo draws, but only in position. it depends on how often my opponents will give me a free card on the turn. in a live game, people get very scared when you cap the flop on them and they'll usually go ahead and give you the initiative.

multiway i wouldnt cap a gutshot+BDFD+overcard draw or an OESD (dirtier overs) but often will cap a FD. again it depends on how passive my opponents are when they are OOP vs me.