Regarding players' point scoring in Hockey

[eurythmech]

One obvious question that has always bothered me is, why do assists count the same as a goal scored? And most of all, why do second assists count as much as a goal?

A defenseman could pass the puck up to a team-mate on the defensive blue line, watch while he skates through half the opposing team, before he passes the center who slap shots an uncatchable puck in the upper corner, and be awarded the same number of points as the other two guys.

Isn't this absurd?

Has there ever been discussions on awarding diffent points to these? Like a 3-2-1 point system or something?

Also, why do NHL (It's the same in Europe, but NHL is bigger - so let's focus there) usually only count a player's scoring history in the regular season when tallying a player's career totals?

Like, when I look up Teemu Selänne, I will often find these career totals:

1041 540 505 1135

But, his play-off stats aren't included, they are as follows:

86 29 33 62

Now, it's fairly obvious that almost any play-off game is more important than any regular season game, so why is this?

[ClarkNasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Now, it's fairly obvious that almost any play-off game is more important than any regular season game, so why is this?


[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason the stats are kept separate in every sport?

[prohornblower]

Does this really bother you that much?

I really don't have a problem with goals and 2nd-assists being equal in terms of points. If they change it to a 3-2-1 system, it might cause some players to pass less (and go for goals more) which would ruin the game imo.

EDIT: I mean everyone already knows that player A with 40 goals and 25 assists is more valuable than player B with 25 goals and 40 assists. So, not a big deal.

[jstnrgrs]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this really bother you that much?

I really don't have a problem with goals and 2nd-assists being equal in terms of points. If they change it to a 3-2-1 system, it might cause some players to pass less (and go for goals more) which would ruin the game imo.

EDIT: I mean everyone already knows that player A with 40 goals and 25 assists is more valuable than player B with 25 goals and 40 assists. So, not a big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any player who would change the way he plays because of a change in the way stats are kept is a player I don't want on my team.

[eurythmech]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now, it's fairly obvious that almost any play-off game is more important than any regular season game, so why is this?


[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason the stats are kept separate in every sport?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea how stats are being kept in other American sports, nor do I care.

As for hockey, though, why?

I realize stats and records etc aren't THAT important, and that people in fact do realize that 40+25 is way more valuable than 25+40, but it just bugs me that for instance there was all this attention last year, when Mats Sundin scored his 500th career goal.
Oh, did he? If you include play-offs, he did this two seasons before, I believe.

Just an example.

No biggie, it just always struck me as weird.

[prohornblower]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this really bother you that much?

I really don't have a problem with goals and 2nd-assists being equal in terms of points. If they change it to a 3-2-1 system, it might cause some players to pass less (and go for goals more) which would ruin the game imo.

EDIT: I mean everyone already knows that player A with 40 goals and 25 assists is more valuable than player B with 25 goals and 40 assists. So, not a big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any player who would change the way he plays because of a change in the way stats are kept is a player I don't want on my team.

[/ QUOTE ]

No sheet. That has aboslutely nothing to do with what I said, though.

[SBR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now, it's fairly obvious that almost any play-off game is more important than any regular season game, so why is this?


[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason the stats are kept separate in every sport?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea how stats are being kept in other American sports, nor do I care.

As for hockey, though, why?

I realize stats and records etc aren't THAT important, and that people in fact do realize that 40+25 is way more valuable than 25+40, but it just bugs me that for instance there was all this attention last year, when Mats Sundin scored his 500th career goal.
Oh, did he? If you include play-offs, he did this two seasons before, I believe.

Just an example.

No biggie, it just always struck me as weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playoff games are more important and generally harder to get points in (tougher competition). Yet you want to mix points in the playoffs in with points from the regular season thereby diminishing the perceived value of playoff points. That doesn't make any sense.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now, it's fairly obvious that almost any play-off game is more important than any regular season game, so why is this?


[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason the stats are kept separate in every sport?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea how stats are being kept in other American sports, nor do I care.

As for hockey, though, why?

I realize stats and records etc aren't THAT important, and that people in fact do realize that 40+25 is way more valuable than 25+40, but it just bugs me that for instance there was all this attention last year, when Mats Sundin scored his 500th career goal.
Oh, did he? If you include play-offs, he did this two seasons before, I believe.

Just an example.

No biggie, it just always struck me as weird.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pete Rose broke the all-time hits record well before he was given credit for it because of all the post-season hits that weren't included.

Roger Clemens really recorded his 300th win before he was given credit for it but his playoff wins weren't counted.

Brett Favre had actually recorded his 400th TD much earlier too but those pesky playoff wins didn't count.


This is how it works in all sports.

[Sunny Mehta]

Don't get too bent out of shape [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], most traditional hockey stats aren't terribly meaningful for judging true performance anyway. Wrt points - while a different weight for goals and assists would perhaps be better, it still wouldn't nearly tell the whole story.

For example, Jaromir Jagr had 30 goals and 66 assists for 96 points last season, while Zack Parise had 31 goals and 31 assists for 62 points. Even if we weighted the goals and assists differently, Jagr would have more points. However, that doesn't necessarily mean Jagr was a better offensive player than Parise. What those numbers fail to take into account is OPPORTUNITY (and quality of opportunity). Jagr played ~350 more minutes than Parise, including 220 more PP minutes. The goal environment - and therefore a player's goal "expectation" - is very different during PP time compared to ES. In other words, Jagr should've scored more, relative to his opportunity.

I highly recommend checking out this site for detailed NHL statistical research. Ryder is awesome and groundbreaking. Also, for year to date "advanced" stats, check out this site.

[g-bebe]

I just want to know how 540 + 505 = 1135.