Dear Stars: Allow Datamining

[berya]

No dataming.

[Grunch]

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The players should call out the sites publicly when they fail to fulfill that duty.

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How can the public accomplish this without the abaility to datamine?

[DMoogle]

rgold79 posted this in the bot thread:
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To your second point the players should not be the ones policing the game. We pay these sites rake with the expectation that they will run the games fairly and allocate resources in order to legitimate their claims. People should call out the sites for not doing their jobs when they don't (like here), but we don't need a network of vigilantes.

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And I agree with this 100%. However, if PokerStars (I'm don't mean to single them out, I'm talking about any site that doesn't put measures in place to prevent bots) doesn't get their act together and start ACTIVELY looking out for bots, then they should at least help their players help them.

[LeapFrog]

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Dataminers are actually the best defense against bots.



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Not even close to true. Internal investigations have access to the entire database as well as mouse movements/whatever else the client may be recording.

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The site may have access to the most efficient tools, but 3rd party watchdogs keep them honest.

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Many 3rd parties are going to try to exploit the bots themselves. Overall I don't really think that datamining (on a large scale) is ultimately good for the game (irrespective of the bots it may catch). Keep the pressure on the sites to do their own policing.

[rgold79]

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Dataminers are actually the best defense against bots.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close to true. Internal investigations have access to the entire database as well as mouse movements/whatever else the client may be recording.

[/ QUOTE ]

The site may have access to the most efficient tools, but 3rd party watchdogs keep them honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many 3rd parties are going to try to exploit the bots themselves. Overall I don't really think that datamining (on a large scale) is ultimately good for the game (irrespective of the bots it may catch). Keep the pressure on the sites to do their own policing.

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Right. These aren't going to be disinterested 3rd parties. These are going to be people who want to look for bots in their spare time but who also will be happy to mostly collect data on their future opponents. If Stars wanted to outsource their security to a legitimately disinterested party, I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.

[CountingMyOuts]

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By not allowing players to datamine, I can only assume that there are very shady things going on at Stars.

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C'mon now, that's a stretch.

If anything, it could be argued by some that Stars is too aggressive with its bot detection. Wasn't TeddyFBI's mom accused of being a bot?

[LeapFrog]

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The players should call out the sites publicly when they fail to fulfill that duty.

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How can the public accomplish this without the abaility to datamine?

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At some point though you have to trust the sites to do the job themselves, just like with the 'rigging issue'. If the sites feel it is in their best interest to crush botting then they will. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Keep on them.

Plus, botting is really in its infancy. How much longer before info taken from the client is pretty much the only way to detect a bot? Datamining is not a long term bot detection solution.

[DMoogle]

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By not allowing players to datamine, I can only assume that there are very shady things going on at Stars.

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C'mon now, that's a stretch.

If anything, it could be argued by some that Stars is too aggressive with its bot detection. Wasn't TeddyFBI's mom accused of being a bot?

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I don't think they're being too aggressive. Right now AFAIK they're only looking for certain software on the player's computer. I believe the issue with TeddyFBI's mom was that she had some software that was setting off a false positive (although I might be wrong). However, if the bot is completely homemade, then Stars has no way of detecting in besides looking at the bot's tendencies, history, and using one of those things that they have on most online forms were you input the number shown on an image on the screen.

[BluffTHIS!]

Dear Stars:

1) DON'T allow data-mining;

2) Take more effective measures to prevent data-mining;

3) Take *pro-active* measures to detect and eliminate bot accounts;

4) Get rid of HUDs;

5) Reduce the number of tables that can be played to 4-6.

[LeapFrog]

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it would be better for the games as a whole if people actually learned to play poker

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LOL

"You're disrespecting the game!"

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I forgot to say:

'He called me with JACK high!'