150/300 stud high reraise or call on 3rd?

[TStoneMBD]

the 5 is a fish, im not sure what the 8 is but he seems sane. he probably has a 3flush. this is a 150/300 ERS game at commerce.

8 handed game. dead cards are irrelevant. all my tens, aces and spades are live.

5-COMPLETE-call
8-call-call
Q-raise-call
TsAs-Th-reraise

5T-call
86-call
QA-CHECK-call
TA-TJ-bet

basically, should i reraise 3rd to get the dead money in the pot in a coin flip situation or should i keep the other players in by just calling? i didnt anticipate that both players would call the reraise but thought it was quite possible. on 4th do i check at this point?

ps, noone caught a 2flush on 4th. i was planning on checking 5th.

[grandgnu]

I think it depends on the image others have of you at the table, and their propensity for calling as well.

If your three-bet isn't going to narrow the field, then you wind up with a not great hand up against three others and a call would likely have been better.

Also, nothing is mentioned about the guy with the Q showing and if he regularly raises with the highest card showing on 3rd street or if he's likely to have a pair of Jacks hidden, split Queens or higher.

A call may be more prudent. It doesn't necessarily disguise that you have a hand, since you're calling a complete and a raise cold. But you may have a flush draw, straight draw, or a pair when you call. So depending on how your board comes down, you may be able to represent strength that doesn't exist.

[SweetLuckyMe]

I think it's really close between a fold and reraise on 3rd. Given everything was live, if I thought I had decent control over the two in the hand, I'd raise - if I thought I'd get punished by queens up player later in the hand I likely wouldn't. To me it all kind of comes down to whether the Q is solid/aggressive or not. I raise there probably 75% and fold 25%.

As played, you have to bet 4th. Now on 5th, I'd hate to have to bet it again unless I caught really good - in a perfect world you'd get the AQ to bet 5th and you could raise to get rid of the stragglers, but you're likely going to have to keep the lead. If it's still 4 handed on 5th I'd really want to find a way to thin the field, else I'd consider folding if a couple of boards were developing.

[Bartholow]

As usual, ante and bring-in are a factor. Also, am I to read this that the 5 was the bring-in and open-completed?

Either way, in the games I've played the 5 and 8 usually won't fold after putting in a full bet. If you've seen them fold in these type situations that of course changes things. If you had aces or kings it would still be worth reraising in the hopes that one or both would bail, but with a hand like yours that REALLY wants to be headsup things are a lot trickier. I'd be tempted to fold if the Q is particularly likely to have a good hand, or if the ante is small or medium sized. Probably neither of those is the case, so I might call hoping to thin the field later (probably 5th) and get some REAL dead money in the pot. And if things come bad just fold 5th instead.

[electrical]

Since the 5 completed, the re-raise on Third is only likely to knock out the 8, the only player not to show significant strength, and even he will be getting good odds on his money. Still, it's worth a shot, and I think it's what I would have done.

On Fourth, the Queen ought to have bet, either for value or so that you could raise and kick out the hitch-hikers, but he didn't. That indicates that he's either not that good or has a gorilla of a hand like a roll-up or Aces-and-Queens and wanted you to bet so he could build a huge pot by raising on the second lap.

In the first case, betting Fourth is likely to result in a cascade of calls, a huge pot and players stuck with their hands to the river, precisely the outcome you don't want. I would not bet Fourth, especially since the 5 caught one of your outs and the Queen caught another.

On Fifth, you will know precisely where you are if the Queen checks again, and you can bet for value, and if the Queen bets, you can fold if unimproved or face the others two with two cold. You will then have to decide about a fold to a raise from the Queen, but at least you won't have to worry about having been suckered into a huge pot with a payoff hand.

[Micturition Man]

I think the 3rd street raise is fine, but the immediate value on it is quite thin so if you think nobody will fold it's better to just call so you can make a thinning raise when the Q bets on 4th street.

However the 5 or the 8 ought to be folding quite often here if they are solid players, so based on the specific opponents a raise can be a lot better than a call here.

[Sevenfold]

Automatic re-raise on 3rd. You would much prefer to play this heads up, even against Q's.

Well, the best laid plans...An ace and T both dropped, and none of them in your hand. You are in bad shape if he has the Qs, but I don't want to give a free card to the cold callers either.

If the AQ had led, I'd have dumped, but it seems as if he has something other than a high pair here. I'm going to guess (hope) that we are still in the lead.

I'd lead 4th, and if it is still checked to me, I'd have to lead 5th again to see who I dropped.

If you are going to check 5th, check 4th. A skip flush might call a bet on 4th, then drop 5th if he bricks. No way can you give them 2 cards for a half bet. Play the hand strong or give it up.

The hand looks to be good so far, but a lot could change. I'm not liking my hand a lot here, but I bet everyone else is thinking the same thing about theirs. Looks like we have 4 so-so hands, and T's are good until I hear otherwise.

[HOWMANY]

I don't understand why the Q didn't bet 4th here. Is he thinking that you have better than a pair of Qs and that everyone else has worse, so he has to improve to win no matter what? Or is he just thinking "lol that guy raised better call down"? Or does it mean that his hand is not a pair of Queens? Depending on the answer to this I think I might want to bet 5th.

3rd is fine I think. Getting at least one straggler out is nice here, as long as you think that's a reasonable possibility I like it. If we're guaranteed a million people to 4th then I'd call and raise the Q when he bets.

[frappeboy]

The re-raise on 3rd is almost always correct in a high ante structure. Ideally you want to get it heads up with the guy who likely has queens.

As far as fourth street is concerned, I would prefer checking behind. Since the other 2 people called a double bet on 3rd, they are likely to take a card off on 4th even if u bet. I like checking behind 4th and perhaps raising 5th assuming the AQ bets out and everyone else catches bad. If someone catches something scary, folding 5th is an option. I just don't like bloating the pot by betting 4th which makes it more likely your opponents will chase with long shot draws since they have better pot odds.

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
The re-raise on 3rd is almost always correct in a high ante structure. Ideally you want to get it heads up with the guy who likely has queens.

As far as fourth street is concerned, I would prefer checking behind. Since the other 2 people called a double bet on 3rd, they are likely to take a card off on 4th even if u bet. I like checking behind 4th and perhaps raising 5th assuming the AQ bets out and everyone else catches bad. If someone catches something scary, folding 5th is an option. I just don't like bloating the pot by betting 4th which makes it more likely your opponents will chase with long shot draws since they have better pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't agree with this. The fact is they bricked. They are going to see 5th whether you bet or not, and they will definitely appreciate being able to see it for free.

On 5th if they improve their draw or make a pair, they are calling. If not they are folding.

The time to not bloat is on 3rd (but not in this particular hand) or on 4th when someone appears to have improved their draw.

When the draws have bricked is the ideal time to get more money in.