Good spots to triple barrel?

jaywks · #1 11-02-2007, 09:48 AM

Just assume that the villains are decent players and are capable of folding hands. They're not calling stations. What do you think of these triple barrels?

****
HAND 1

Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $593.40
BB: $1,738.50
UTG: $150.55
CO: $690.80
Hero (BTN): $612.75

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, Hero raises to $21, SB calls $18, BB folds

Flop: ($48) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $36, SB calls $36

Turn: ($120) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $84, SB calls $84

River: ($288) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $220

*****
HAND 2

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $410.15
BB: $519
Hero (UTG): $400
CO: $400
BTN: $191.50

Pre-Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $14, 3 folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($30) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, BB calls $20

Turn: ($70) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $48, BB calls $48

River: ($166) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $124

****
HAND 3

Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $893.35
SB: $2,092.65
Hero (BB): $1,579
UTG: $1,859.50
MP: $2,169.25
CO: $2,677.15

Pre-Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
4 folds, SB calls $5, Hero raises to $30, SB calls $20

Flop: ($60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $40, SB calls $40

Turn: ($140) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $90, SB calls $90

River: ($320) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $220

*****
HAND 4

Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $658.40
SB: $1,085.70
BB: $654.75
UTG: $582
Hero (CO): $754.40

Pre-Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $21, BTN folds, SB calls $18, BB calls $15

Flop: ($63) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $45, SB folds, BB calls $45

Turn: ($153) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $115, BB calls $115

River: ($383) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $573.40 and is All-In

jcl · #2 11-02-2007, 09:52 AM

im not sure if u knew it urself but i think they get slightly worse except for the last one which is horrific and will never succeed against a thinking opponent. the first two are fine and pretty hard to defend against so long as u play ur made hands the same way. the third is sure to get someone thinking because the turned K and rivered Q are pretty obvious cards to bluff and the flop is pretty dangerous for AK/AA so they might well expect u to check that river. the last IMO is horrendous and will never work against a good hand reader i'd suggest having the goods in the 4th situation and giving up otherwise

Yentz · #3 11-02-2007, 10:03 AM

1)
I give up on the turn, the second Q is a good card for almost whatever hand he is willing to call turn with.
2)
I dont know, you obvously might fold out a missed flushdraw.
He is not folding much else he calls turn with I think, since you might have a missed draw too.
3)
I like betting river here. The K is such an obvious card to bluff on the turn, so he might peel once with pp, pair+gutshot etc and fold to the river bet
4)
I think the last barrel is fine here, he needs a pretty strong hand to call. You might be able to bet a bit less without getting called much more. I might bet 280 or so, I doubt he will bluffraise this river giving you great odds.
I am not sure about that though, would like to hear someone elses opinion.

jcl · #4 11-02-2007, 10:10 AM

the key to the first two are that u value bet ur made hands. it's true the Q is an excellent river for like KJ in the first hand and if he peels a T in the 2nd hand he'll prob call the river or call because he expects u to check the river to induce a bluff from a missed flush draw. but as long as u bet made hands ull show a profit in these situations.

the fourth one isn't IMO about whether he needs a strong hand to call. it's whether he can read ur hand to be a bluff and ur line is very difficult to reconcile with nething but a bluff. sure against unthinking players u can triple barrel a lot of boards and they'll fold because they 'need a strong hand to call' but i don't think that was the point of this post. if u want to be un exploitable in this last situation ull need to bluff it only very rarely because it is very rare that u have the hand here. the rivered A is equally as good a card as the rivered Q in the 2nd situation from his perspective too if he has a hand like KcJx.

Yentz · #5 11-02-2007, 10:15 AM

Why is the last one so bad?
Why cant hero have 44,99,jj,AA,AJ, A9, or Kjs KQs for a flush here?

jcl · #6 11-02-2007, 10:23 AM

i think the majority of those may check behind the turn and AJ A9 almost certainly. just in general when the sb plays like hes chasing a flush and the raiser nevertheless slams another bet when the flush comes, it looks pretty suss (especially when it is the A). the flush is the only real logical hand he has here IMO but yeah it depends how he plays his sets on turn and sets are still rare compared to possible bluffs.

jaywks · #7 11-02-2007, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]

the fourth one isn't IMO about whether he needs a strong hand to call. it's whether he can read ur hand to be a bluff and ur line is very difficult to reconcile with nething but a bluff. sure against unthinking players u can triple barrel a lot of boards and they'll fold because they 'need a strong hand to call' but i don't think that was the point of this post. if u want to be un exploitable in this last situation ull need to bluff it only very rarely because it is very rare that u have the hand here. the rivered A is equally as good a card as the rivered Q in the 2nd situation from his perspective too if he has a hand like KcJx.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying against certain players, this would actually be a great line as a value bet with AQ,AK,AT?

jcl · #8 11-02-2007, 10:33 AM

sure but ud fold to a check-raise on turn obviously. the river would give u trips so that's a pretty standard bet. whether i'd bet a non-A river would be closer and it'd depend on my opponent and how solid my read was but i probably would simply because i bluff turned aces a lot so i need to balance that.