FR Theory: Raising several limpers from the blinds/ in position

[Elverian]

A reasonable strategy would be, assuming calling stations:
77-JJ, limp (as you are OOP) and try to flop a set. When OOP it is important not to hit marginal hands on the flop.You could make a small raise to brew the pot, but usually continue only when you flop a set or overpair.
AQo-ATo take a look at the flop and proceed with caution.

Suited paints, you can either see a flop or make a small pot building raise. These hands tend to play well multiway, so I'd prefer not to try the big raise approach with them.

If you do raise, it should be at least 4-5BB + 1BB per limper. ie. 8BB or so with 3 limpers.

[threads13]

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If you do raise, it should be at least 4-5BB + 1BB per limper. ie. 8BB or so with 3 limpers.

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Yes, I am just picking out one spot. I don't think this is necessarily the best idea. You have to think of your reasoning for the raise. With 100BB deep it may often bet the case that you want to make a big raise to narrow out the field and achieve a good SPR, but I think there are problems with this strategy. Also, if you were 200BB+ you may make some small pot-sweetener raises with your PP hands.

[Landlord79]

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Equity edges aren't as important when the stacks are medium to deep.

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QFT, this is a huge statement!!!

You're playing deep stacked cash, not a tourney where you have 10 to 30BB's.
NH, Threads

[BJJIII]

I only raise with QQ-AA in a multiway limped pots from the blinds in a loose passive game, and I pretty much complete the SB with a very wide range of hands.

I limp AK OOP in multiway pots in Loose-Passive games.

[threads13]

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[ QUOTE ]
Equity edges aren't as important when the stacks are medium to deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, this is a huge statement!!!

You're playing deep stacked cash, not a tourney where you have 10 to 30BB's.
NH, Threads

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Thanks, I wish I hadn't read it in NLTAP first so I could claim it was original... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[CalledDownLight]

I disagree, I think position is more important multiway than HU. You have the opportunity to take a lot of pots away after opponents show weakness and have a lot more info available in position that oop. Also, you will be able to play the river correctly much more easier in position than oop especially on drawy boards.

[threads13]

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I disagree, I think position is more important multiway than HU. You have the opportunity to take a lot of pots away after opponents show weakness and have a lot more info available in position that oop. Also, you will be able to play the river correctly much more easier in position than oop especially on drawy boards.

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Sure, but these are advantages that you have in a HU pot only they are more pronounced in a HU pot.

Say you have position in 7-way pot with 66 on a J73 flop and it is checked to you. Surely you aren't going to bet this into a bunch of calling stations. Even if you have a FD with ATs you should probably just check the flop against the players that were described.

You are going to see a lot of hands like these.

[CalledDownLight]

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[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, I think position is more important multiway than HU. You have the opportunity to take a lot of pots away after opponents show weakness and have a lot more info available in position that oop. Also, you will be able to play the river correctly much more easier in position than oop especially on drawy boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but these are advantages that you have in a HU pot only they are more pronounced in a HU pot.

Say you have position in 7-way pot with 66 on a J73 flop and it is checked to you. Surely you aren't going to bet this into a bunch of calling stations. Even if you have a FD with ATs you should probably just check the flop against the players that were described.

You are going to see a lot of hands like these.

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if i'm last to act in a multiway pot and its checked around to me I fire 3/4 pot with basically atc (will check some weak draws so as to not get pushed off them). Its been pretty profitable for me, but I never had the opportunity to play on Party so maybe those games are more the type you're talking about.

[threads13]

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[ QUOTE ]
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I disagree, I think position is more important multiway than HU. You have the opportunity to take a lot of pots away after opponents show weakness and have a lot more info available in position that oop. Also, you will be able to play the river correctly much more easier in position than oop especially on drawy boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but these are advantages that you have in a HU pot only they are more pronounced in a HU pot.

Say you have position in 7-way pot with 66 on a J73 flop and it is checked to you. Surely you aren't going to bet this into a bunch of calling stations. Even if you have a FD with ATs you should probably just check the flop against the players that were described.

You are going to see a lot of hands like these.

[/ QUOTE ]

if i'm last to act in a multiway pot and its checked around to me I fire 3/4 pot with basically atc (will check some weak draws so as to not get pushed off them). Its been pretty profitable for me, but I never had the opportunity to play on Party so maybe those games are more the type you're talking about.

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I am talking about the game described above.

[maltaille]

So what are you trying to achieve with a raise? Are you trying to get it HU or 3-way so that your top pair is likely to be good? Are you trying to get it HU so you can successfully bluff even when you haven't hit? Are you trying to build a pot so that you can get it all in with 2-pair+ on the turn? Figure out what you're trying to achieve, then it should be easy to make the raise that will achieve it.

As to what you're trying to achieve . . . it sounds like your implied odds are fantastic if they'll call three pot-size bets with trash, so playing a passive game is more profitable than it would normally be.

Stack sizes will have a large effect on your PF tactics. If they're short, you're likely to be able to get it in when you hit anyway, but if you're deep you'll have to work harder to do so, which will usually mean some sort of PF raise to prime the pot. 100BB isn't particularly deep, but it is deep enough that getting it all in by the river will often require a PF raise. Be aware of their stack sizes though.

The players here don't sound like they'll notice the difference between a large raise designed to get HU and a small raise designed to build the pot, so you probably don't need to mix it up by varying those amounts too much.

In the game you describe, you're betting when you have a hand, and you're not stealing very much at all, so position becomes important more for the ability to get money into the pot than for stealing opportunities. It sounds like there isn't a lot of betting by others though, is that right? In a game like you describe I'd expect to see people checking their marginal hands around, or poorly sizing their bets. Will they call raises as well as bets? If so, being in position will give you a chance to raise post-flop to get the pot size you want. If not, it will put more emphasis on raising PF. Other than that, because of the lack of stealing and the opportunities to value bet relentlessly, the difference in hands you raise from the blinds compared to with position is much, much less than it usually would be.

Final thought, in a game this good you don't need to worry so much about losing value with your small-pot hands (high pairs, AK/AQ) by not cbetting because you'll be getting such good value from your large pot hands (flushes, straights, sets). Paradoxically though, if you're willing to handle the variance, there are also opportunities to get more value from your small pot hands when they hit by betting them hard on all streets, relying on the idea that you're ahead of their range, and just accepting that sometimes they are actually going to have a monster rather than a weaker top pair.