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View Poll Results: Would you be very likely to play in this Aussie Style KOTKP?
Yes - and Im close to Aussies timezone 5 33.33%
Yes - but Im American or Canadian and I might be drunk 3 20.00%
Yes - but I live in a place that lets me use the other Yes answers 0 0%
Maybe - I live on the planet earth 7 46.67%
No 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:40 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

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I sometimes wonder if the very act of debating is where rational thinkers go wrong. You wouldn't debate somebody on witchcraft. You'd simply laugh in their face and move on. If they continued to spout their beliefs in your face (and tried to influence your children and others), then you'd probably get kinda nasty about it, no? But I don't think you'd be advocating that the country start engaging in formal debates if witchcraft ever threatened to become part of the science curriculum in your kid's public shool, would you?

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This is a great point, unfortunately, it's not even the point.

If someone wants to shove their religion down your throat, sure, be as rude as you personally feel you need to be. But don't pretend it's all in self-defense, when it clearly isn't. More often than any of you will admit, it is the theist blindsided by a rude, obnoxious attack by the atheist.

Maybe I just have a different standard of raising and a higher standard of social skills than many of you, but if you were to ask me the question "Is it acceptable to mock people for X" I would cut you off at the word "people" with a resounding "NO!". Sure, we all lose control of our tempers from time to time, but to accept and embrace the fact that this group (theists) are acceptable to mock by the atheist, in my view, gives the theist the moral high ground straight from the beginning.

I don't care how stupid you think the beliefs they hold are, that's not the point. The point is to be a dignified human being. I have respect for some atheists, as well as some theists for the dignity and social skills they've shown, and I've also lost alot of respect for many otherwise intelligent atheists as well as quite a few theists for the childishness and pure lack of respect for others they've shown.

In this world, when you've lost your dignity, you've nothing else in my view.

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Your point would be well taken (with me at least), if religious was truly harmless. But we are living in a world where certain people would slice off your head if given the chance, because you don't believe what they do. It's not hard to imagine what will happen when these people get their hands on nukes.

To ridicule the extremists while tolerating and giving a free pass to the moderates is inconsistent. They are the same illogical paths. One group just happens to be further down it than the other. That's all.
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:46 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

I forget to even comment on this:

<font color="blue"> But don't pretend it's all in self-defense, when it clearly isn't. More often than any of you will admit, it is the theist blindsided by a rude, obnoxious attack by the atheist.

</font>

Are you kidding me? Atheists are the most maligned group of people in America! You are better off claiming to be a child molestor than an atheist if you want to run for public office. Who's being blind-sided by who?

A former president of this country has said that atheists shouldn't even be considered Americans, because this country was founded under god. Again, there is not a more maligned group in America than atheists. I think you need to re-look at this. The plight of non-believers is much worse than you seem to think.
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  #43  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:07 PM
Case Closed Case Closed is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

lesat,

WRT your OP I would have to say that I am a weak atheist. I am not this neo atheist who goes about the world speaking strongly about their lack of faith. I fear the loss of friends and public ridicule and the constant public harassment that comes with even speaking to people about being an atheist. With the close people around me who are non-theists I discuss things without worry. I am also much more upfront with people I have just met. But the core group of people around me I am far too afraid of alienating them when speaking about it...and with some I am afraid of changing their mind(ie turning my catholic friend to atheist). I don't know if this post has any relevance to this thread, but I have felt the need to illustrate this point and perhaps get a comment or two about it.
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  #44  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:08 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Atheists are the most maligned group of people in America! You are better off claiming to be a child molestor than an atheist if you want to run for public office. Who's being blind-sided by who?

A former president of this country has said that atheists shouldn't even be considered Americans, because this country was founded under god. Again, there is not a more maligned group in America than atheists. I think you need to re-look at this. The plight of non-believers is much worse than you seem to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from difficulties running for office - and I assume we mean national office, here, though state level might be significant too - what is the remainder of the "plight" of non-believers? I must say I don't feel particularly persecuted.
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:28 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Atheists are the most maligned group of people in America! You are better off claiming to be a child molestor than an atheist if you want to run for public office. Who's being blind-sided by who?

A former president of this country has said that atheists shouldn't even be considered Americans, because this country was founded under god. Again, there is not a more maligned group in America than atheists. I think you need to re-look at this. The plight of non-believers is much worse than you seem to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from difficulties running for office - and I assume we mean national office, here, though state level might be significant too - what is the remainder of the "plight" of non-believers? I must say I don't feel particularly persecuted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me get this straight... That's not enough?! Being barred from gaining high office is acceptable to you? Would you accept this condition for gays, blacks, or any other group? To me, this is enough without even getting into the argument that there are religious people who would view you as evil (some willing to slice off your head), upon learning you don't believe in god.

Keep your rational views to yourself and you won't be persecuted.
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  #46  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:35 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

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Let me get this straight... That's not enough?! Being barred from gaining high office is acceptable to you? Would you accept this condition for gays, blacks, or any other group?

[/ QUOTE ]

Being black or gay isn't a belief system, so I think this is a dumb comparison. To say that atheists are the most maligned group in America, when this seems to be the extent of their suffering that you can come up with, seems absurd to me.
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  #47  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:36 PM
kurto kurto is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Atheists are the most maligned group of people in America! You are better off claiming to be a child molestor than an atheist if you want to run for public office. Who's being blind-sided by who?

A former president of this country has said that atheists shouldn't even be considered Americans, because this country was founded under god. Again, there is not a more maligned group in America than atheists. I think you need to re-look at this. The plight of non-believers is much worse than you seem to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from difficulties running for office - and I assume we mean national office, here, though state level might be significant too - what is the remainder of the "plight" of non-believers? I must say I don't feel particularly persecuted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you'll laugh when I give these particular examples... but my wife and I watch Trading Spouses and Wifeswap semi-regularly. They've had several shows where an atheist or person with 'alternative beliefs' swaps with a very religious family. When the atheist or New Age wife goes to the religious community, she is almost always treated with scorn.

As another poster stated, there have been politicians and such who ridicule atheists. We don't for a second think they're isolated freaks. They're representative of a large group.

When I visit my family down south, I would never feel comfortable admitting I was an atheist outside my parents home.

On another TV note - I believe the show "30 days" had an episode where a religious person went to live with an atheist family for 30 days. I seem to recall it was an interesting show where you heard both sides arguing about the negtivity they felt from the other side.
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  #48  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:46 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

[ QUOTE ]

I know you'll laugh when I give these particular examples... but my wife and I watch Trading Spouses and Wifeswap semi-regularly. They've had several shows where an atheist or person with 'alternative beliefs' swaps with a very religious family. When the atheist or New Age wife goes to the religious community, she is almost always treated with scorn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, television shows looking to maximize drama and looking for maximum conflict are a good place to look for examples of this phenomenon. It's also not like the religious aren't treated with scorn and derision by the atheists; witness the Internet.
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  #49  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:48 PM
luckyme luckyme is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

[ QUOTE ]
lesat,

WRT your OP I would have to say that I am a weak atheist. I am not this neo atheist who goes about the world speaking strongly about their lack of faith. I fear the loss of friends and public ridicule and the constant public harassment that comes with even speaking to people about being an atheist. With the close people around me who are non-theists I discuss things without worry. I am also much more upfront with people I have just met. But the core group of people around me I am far too afraid of alienating them when speaking about it...and with some I am afraid of changing their mind(ie turning my catholic friend to atheist). I don't know if this post has any relevance to this thread, but I have felt the need to illustrate this point and perhaps get a comment or two about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some on here would have you delusional. You'll thrive in business and socially by expressing your atheism in a non-threatening manner apparently, and you'll just have to deal with the inconvenience of majority of your countrymen thinking you are worse than an illegal alien in the political realm.
Somehow, I guess, they think of you as two people - the atheist who shouldn't even be a citizen and the atheist who is a great neighbor and businessman to deal with. I don't buy it.

luckyme
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  #50  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:55 PM
vhawk01 vhawk01 is offline
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Default Re: Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

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[ QUOTE ]
This whole "all religion is ignorant stupidity" business isn't science, it's just arrogance. Dawkins should shut the hell up. He's just using science to justify his personal trip -- snobbery. That, and sell books to the angry egghead market, which is large.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Safe to guess you've never read anything by Richard Dawkins?
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