Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Medium Stakes Limit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-25-2007, 02:33 AM
Captain R Captain R is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lootin\' and plunderin\' the bay
Posts: 451
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

surfdoc is wise.

Anyway, I still don't understand why she doesn't like gambling. It doesn't make sense when she says it "cheapens her work" when you win, and then when you lose it's not good either. It sounds like she doesn't understand variance, which as we all know does take some time to understand in a poker sense.

As for contributing to society, most people who make a$$loads of money are not contributing to society as much as they should. They're charging way too much for whatever service/product they are providing.

Doctors provide a great service to society. But you know what? They also charge a crapload of money for this service. Most of them wouldn't be in the profession if it paid the same as a teacher (who also provide a valuable service to society).

Smart people don't take low-paying jobs.

Maybe you need to ditch Gretchen Mol for Famke.

Just kidding, good luck with the girlfriend. It will not be easy or fun, but I'm sure you can get her to eventually understand poker. My wife was extremely against me playing early on, but over time I have showed her I was a winning player in the long run, and that ended up being the strongest argument I could make. She was more in the "I'm afraid you're going to get addicted and lose all of our money" camp than anything about being productive to society.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:54 AM
The Dude The Dude is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Strong men also cry.
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

[ QUOTE ]

It's definately a bad idea to consider marrying someone who doesn't "approve" of what you do. I think it's very arrogant when one person thinks that how another person makes a living needs to meet their own personal moral standards.

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf is wrong with you? There's nothing in the post indicating that she's arrogant or nasty or judgmental about it all. Shes not some random person that ran up to him and said "You're going to hell for playing poker." She's his girlfriend who is about to move in with him, and she said that she doesn't like that it adds nothing to society. People certainly have a right to choose their partners based on whether their values and interests line up.

You're the one that ignorantly jumped into a situation and condemned someone based solely on your own dumb assumptions.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:05 AM
that_pope that_pope is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Casino AZ
Posts: 458
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It's definately a bad idea to consider marrying someone who doesn't "approve" of what you do. I think it's very arrogant when one person thinks that how another person makes a living needs to meet their own personal moral standards.

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf is wrong with you? There's nothing in the post indicating that she's arrogant or nasty or judgmental about it all. Shes not some random person that ran up to him and said "You're going to hell for playing poker." She's his girlfriend who is about to move in with him, and she said that she doesn't like that it adds nothing to society. People certainly have a right to choose their partners based on whether their values and interests line up.

You're the one that ignorantly jumped into a situation and condemned someone based solely on your own dumb assumptions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for 'sticking up for me' on that argument, but you were pretty judgemental in an earlier post. You are claiming that I am lying to her for 2 years +. While I don't give a dollar amount, she knows I won a 14k+ tourney online among other things, and stating a $200 win or loss for a session isn't a huge stretch for 8/16, which I was playing up until June 1st. June 1st I started 20/40 full time, and she went to Argentina for the semester August 15th, and gets back December 15th, so I haven't really been lying, just not announcing my session to session results, since I talk to her once a day.

My original plan was to wait until after New Years to tell her, but based on everyones advice, I think I may tell her during the week of the 17th, probably 17-19th so it doesn't get exposed to her by someone saying "Pope won $3000+ last night or Pope lost $3000+ last night" which would obviously make matters 10x worse...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:17 AM
The Dude The Dude is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Strong men also cry.
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

[ QUOTE ]
You are claiming that I am lying to her for 2 years +. While I don't give a dollar amount, she knows I won a 14k+ tourney online among other things, and stating a $200 win or loss for a session isn't a huge stretch for 8/16, which I was playing up until June 1st. June 1st I started 20/40 full time, and she went to Argentina for the semester August 15th, and gets back December 15th, so I haven't really been lying, just not announcing my session to session results, since I talk to her once a day.


[/ QUOTE ]
Look, I've been down the road of "I'm not really lying, I'm just exaggerating (or understating)" many times. Same with the "I'll start being completely honest when circumstances are right" road. You know where they lead? To bigger exaggerations, and, eventually, blatant lies. Plus then when you do come clean you have to explain why you didn't trust the other person enough to just be honest from the beginning.

Whether you consider it lying isn't really the issue. She's going to feel lied to, and based on what you've told us she's justified in that feeling. Would you want your partner to systematically mislead you about something in her everyday life because she thinks you wouldn't understand?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-25-2007, 10:06 AM
Cactus Jack Cactus Jack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere on the Strip
Posts: 1,423
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

You bet she's going to feel lied to. Sadly, Pope wouldn't have had to lie to her if she understood or even was indifferent to his playing. It's going to come down to whether she can accept what he does, or he stops doing what he does. Not a good situation for either, I'm afraid.

It's not the money. It's the poker.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:14 PM
BriPlay BriPlay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 378
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

just one thing to add to the other posts.
some women can be very funny about financial issues, and she may not want to bring it up as you are in a sensitive (pre-proposal) stage.
If you haven't already, it might help to (prior to taking with her) set up a specific separate bank account for your poker wins/losses. I did this and it helped make it clear to my wife that i have no intentions of using family funds, and her anxiety wilted.
oh one other thing that can help; i bought my wife diamond eaarrings with about 2k from my winnings... a gift she would be upset by if it was our family money...it really helped her see that im not just wasting my time!

good luck!!

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:33 PM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,285
Default Easy fix, this is how I handle it...

I keep my poker money separately. I keep an envelope of the hundos I won stashed in my desk.

NEVER USE THESE BENJAMINS FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MID LIMIT PLAY. DO NOT USE THIS MONEY FOR NO LIMIT. DO NOT PASS GO. GO DIRECTLY TO ENVELOPE WITH THIS CASH UPON YOUR RETURN FROM CASINO AND RETURN THE PROCEEDS, COMPLETELY IN TACT, DIRECTLY TO THE ENVELOPE. WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THE CASINO THE NEXT TIME, TAKE YOUR REQUIRED ALLOTMENT FROM ENVELOPE, AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS OVER AND OVER, AD INFINITUM. SHOW ENVELOPE TO GIRLFRIEND UPON REQUEST OR NAGGING. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT FORGET TO USE EXCESS FUNDS ON VALENTINES DAY, BY CELEBRATING WITH JEWELRY, A GIFT OF A VACATION, AND REALLY GREAT DINNER DATE AND SHOW.

Remember, this method works well only if you are in fact, a winning player as you have stated.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:10 PM
jkamowitz jkamowitz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,229
Default Re: Easy fix, this is how I handle it...

[ QUOTE ]
I keep my poker money separately. I keep an envelope of the hundos I won stashed in my desk.

NEVER USE THESE BENJAMINS FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN MID LIMIT PLAY. DO NOT USE THIS MONEY FOR NO LIMIT. DO NOT PASS GO. GO DIRECTLY TO ENVELOPE WITH THIS CASH UPON YOUR RETURN FROM CASINO AND RETURN THE PROCEEDS, COMPLETELY IN TACT, DIRECTLY TO THE ENVELOPE. WHEN YOU GO OUT TO THE CASINO THE NEXT TIME, TAKE YOUR REQUIRED ALLOTMENT FROM ENVELOPE, AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS OVER AND OVER, AD INFINITUM. SHOW ENVELOPE TO GIRLFRIEND UPON REQUEST OR NAGGING. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT FORGET TO USE EXCESS FUNDS ON VALENTINES DAY, BY CELEBRATING WITH JEWELRY, A GIFT OF A VACATION, AND REALLY GREAT DINNER DATE AND SHOW.

Remember, this method works well only if you are in fact, a winning player as you have stated.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Al, you're advocating using the money earned for your girl and girl alone? This doesn't make too much sense.

Pope, I asked my girl about your situation and what as a girl she likes to hear;

She likes to hear that I'm saving my money, that I'm investing it. She likes to see me quit when I'm down and listen to her during the tough times. She likes it when I treat her well after disapearing for a few days.

She said she's glad that I talk to her because she gets to share in the good days and she's supportive during the bad days.

Again, best of luck.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:36 PM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,285
Default Re: Easy fix, this is how I handle it...

No JK, I use the money for all my poker related expenses, such as food, gas, and lodging (actually, I used my first envelope of money for the down payment on my boardwalk condo).

I advocated using the money for the OP's girl so he can blow off the heat he gets from her. Anyway, my point is like that discussion that we had a few months ago about never going broke and the advantages of playing limit vs no-limit. I keep a bankroll exclusively devoted to poker. I actually over expended my bankroll to purchase my condo, so I had to drop down to 10/20 to get back up to the required bankroll for 20/40 again. I plan to be returning to 20/40 sometime over the winter. Anyway, at whatever level, the excess cash generated by limit poker really adds up.

For further reading, I recommend "Gambling Theory and Other Topics" by Mason Malmuth. This work really helped me understand variance (winning and losing streaks) and bankroll requirements to stay afloat in the world of mid limit stakes.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-25-2007, 07:53 PM
jfk jfk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,313
Default Re: How to tell girlfriend about amount of money spent playing poker

[ QUOTE ]
if she asks how I did, I always say something about losing $100 or $200 or winning $100 or $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

My advice is never to lie to someone whom you intend to marry and to continue this policy into marriage.

[ QUOTE ]
She doesn't approve of 'gambling'

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more of a strength than a weakness. We who do this seriously shouldn't feel that the rest of the world must immediately grasp notions of +EV and figure out that we do this for profit. Those who hold the view that gambling = losing are generally right well more than 90% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to come clean with how much I can win/lose in a given night. I have all my sessions tracked in Excel for the past 3 years, and have shown a profit every year. I do have some large losses of like $4000+ and wins of the same magnitude that might scare her.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Excel list would be Exhibit A and a great way to break the ice. It may even spark in her some degree of interest in what you do. You may offer to let her read one of the thirty books you have on your shelf. Those books are Exhibit B in building your case as to why your interest in poker is different than a tourist's interest in craps.

[ QUOTE ]
So I know I need to be honest with her, because her finding out from one of my friends who know my activity would be 10x worse (would probably occur on a night of drinking, which would make the fight even worse).

[/ QUOTE ]

...hence the simple elegance of the "never lie" policy.

[ QUOTE ]
So whats the best way to go about this. I don't want to do it until after xmas and us getting used to living together. But that means I will need to hide my money even better then I do now.

[/ QUOTE ]

See the Excel and books commentary and do not hide your money. Her seeing that you have a lot of unexplained cash about will help your case.

[ QUOTE ]
Is coming straight out and explaining it to her that it is a great outlet for my competitive nature, I enjoy it as a hobby, and I make a nice side income from it as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a perfect start.


[ QUOTE ]
Buying her stuff with poker winnings wouldn't convince her of it, since she isn't the material/gold digging type.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would make her a natural type to be very suspicious and wary of gambling and gamblers. Again, this is more likely to reflect strength of character and common sense than it is to be a sign of close mindedness.

[ QUOTE ]
So any advice/experiences would be welcomed while I prep myself for the 'talk'. Another wrinkle in it is that I hate working 9 to 5, and she loves her line of work, so I could see eventually me being a stay at home dad who plays poker 20-30 hours a week to make an income as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a guy who has done this. It is certainly a viable path as poker income can be a great part time job. Bear in mind however that a large portion of the outside world still views poker player as either a) seedy and/or borderline criminal or b) a made up job like "Chief Ice Cream Taster". Also consider that if you're a parent staying home to take care of your kids, that in itself will be a very demanding full time job. Yes, its viable to fit some poker into the nooks and crannies of a day but adding 20-30 hours on top of what already figures to be a pretty full day is more of a challenge than it may seem at first. There are a whole host of other issues to explore with this and it could be an essay in itself, so suffice it say that it is viable but with drawbacks.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it would be a deal breaker if she puts her foot down and says I can't play that much, but it just might be...I enjoy it that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a highly personal and private decision and goes to the heart of who you are as a person. There are those who view their marriage and/or family as the most important thing in their life and make sacrifices to maintain domestic tranquility.

There are also those who view marriage/family as one segment of their lives and are willing to weigh the pros and cons of all their decisions in a relative way. If a better job comes up but its necessitates a move which is opposed by a spouse, a career driven person will put a priority on career. If someone professionally successful decides they've outgrown their current marriage and happens to stumble upon a very attractive, younger alternative to their current spouse they may elect to serve their own needs and happiness with an upgrade. Without assigning moral judgments to the above, people make these choices every day and it goes to who they are as a person. No one can help you make those choices.

Schoonmaker has written a lot about poker and its high degree of suitableness as a hobby or a part time job. It might be worth it to search out some of his older writings. Also, take a good look around the card room the next time you're there. Take a good look at the 40+ year old regular, winning players without wedding rings and judge for yourself whether you think it would be a good call to set aside a serious relationship for the opportunity to be in their shoes twenty years from now. While doing that also picture your current circle of friends and envision their lives twenty years out. Will you be content as a single man spending his waking hours predating on degenerates while everyone you've known has gone on to raise families, buy homes and mature while you've given over your life to poker? Perhaps most importantly, consider whether finding a potential wife who has a natural suspicion and aversion to gambling is a good sign of character or a flaw?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.