I totally out of character play against 2+2er in Shooting Star

[SossMan]

First level of WPT Shooting Star.
I am at the table with MTTer Locutus2002. He is two to my right. We have been playing 7 or 8 handed and he has been pretty aggressive preflop and cbetting postflop. I think we both have a little over the 20k starting stack.

EP limped, he made it 225, and I made it 1k from the SB w/ KK. I believe this is the first 3 bet I had made, though I had made a few preflop raises previously. I also had played one hand w/ Joe when I floated him preflop and on the flop and took it on the turn w/ middle pair when he checked.

Blinds and EP folded and he called.

Flop was K93r

I led for 1k, he raised to 2500.

What's the best way to get him to give us more chips w/ the likely AK/AA or a smaller set. Let's assume that he doesn't put any more money in the pot w/ worse hands.

[MLG]

call,
donk turn.

[wpr101]

[ QUOTE ]
call,
donk turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, he is never folding AA on the turn when you donk bet half pot.

Why are we assuming he never bluffs further? I do kind of see... he could raise this flop with air since the board is dry. But he's not going to continue a bluff on this board when we play past the flop. Also, it would be pretty poor logic on his part to think he could get us to fold AK.

[0evg0]

i dont like such a small flop bet

[wpr101]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like such a small flop bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, flop bet is a little on the small side. It seems to have induced a raise which might have been the goal?

[NoahSD]

Not that this is a good reason to bet more on the flop, but the flop action really makes our lives more difficult.

[luckychewy]

i dunno your relationship with said player, but i think a very relevant question is whether or not he knows its you(ie if he realizes you are cognizant of his image or if you could be a random live donk). i agree with call, donk turn given the situation, though i could see there being a better line under some circumstances. really try to make him think you have air/marginal hand when you bet, and i think based off your feel at the time you can determine the bet size better than us. if i had say i like 4k on the turn.

if he is really playing in high gear and despite this being your first 3-bet you think there's a very good chance of him playing back light, i think you should definitely call and check the turn. based on any signs of strength/weakness you pick up i would probably call and check the river too. your flop bet, and assuming the turn goes check/call, really makes your hand look very marginal. i could see him betting a worse hand for value as well as continuing a bluff assuming you think he will get very bluffy in this spot.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
i dunno your relationship with said player, but i think a very relevant question is whether or not he knows its you(ie if he realizes you are cognizant of his image or if you could be a random live donk). i agree with call, donk turn given the situation, though i could see there being a better line under some circumstances. really try to make him think you have air/marginal hand when you bet, and i think based off your feel at the time you can determine the bet size better than us. if i had say i like 4k on the turn.

if he is really playing in high gear and despite this being your first 3-bet you think there's a very good chance of him playing back light, i think you should definitely call and check the turn. based on any signs of strength/weakness you pick up i would probably call and check the river too. your flop bet, and assuming the turn goes check/call, really makes your hand look very marginal. i could see him betting a worse hand for value as well as continuing a bluff assuming you think he will get very bluffy in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
luckychewy
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 03/10/06
Posts: 5336
Loc: misplaying kings

[/ QUOTE ]

and call/lead is the best play here. the only way it's not is if you know that you're not getting another bet out of AA from Joe on the turn, which is possible, but pretty much impossible to actually know. in which case, check/pot river is superior, but i think it's a mistake in fundamental theory if Joe is folding AA to a turn donk. especially since you're not (shouldnt) be 3betting 33 or 99 here pf. so it's KK/K9/93/air. folding to a single turn bet has got to be a mistake there, so therefore, call flop raise, donk turn, lead river.

[Exitonly]

wait wiat, you eliminate 99 and 33 from our range because of PF, but not K9/93?

edit: i dont really disagree with your post, just that part was weird

[0evg0]

K9/K3/93 = air that did well