|
|
#21
03-13-2007, 10:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
[ QUOTE ]
I think the overbet shove is really bad there yes it gets the money in the flop when you are ahead but IF he folds a better hand than ace high you were ahead equity wise anyway but you knew that, also overbet shoving won't give him a chance to bluff when your ace high is ahead of his non paired hand. Also, if he has a draw himself he may fold cuz he isn't getting the right odds at all, but if you bet/call or check/shove than you get money in as 2to 1 fav or better. You really think you fold to a 4bet shove there? I meant to include in my folding to a 4bet really bad because he has pos and expects a cbet and prob flats with AA/KK a lot. I think folding to the 4bet is really scared poker esp since a lot the time he 4bet shoves I think he has AK as well, and some of them you are freerolling against basically. [/ QUOTE ] I have some issues with a bunch of your logic here. [ QUOTE ] I think the overbet shove is really bad there yes it gets the money in the flop when you are ahead but IF he folds a better hand than ace high you were ahead equity wise anyway but you knew that, [/ QUOTE ] I would much rather he fold a hand like TT-QQ. I'm a small favorite, but there's a ton of dead money in the pot. He would be correct to call from a FTOP standpoint. [ QUOTE ] also overbet shoving won't give him a chance to bluff when your ace high is ahead of his non paired hand. [/ QUOTE ] after he calls the 5k, I just don't think there are many non-paired, non AK hands that he has there. [ QUOTE ] Also, if he has a draw himself he may fold cuz he isn't getting the right odds at all, but if you bet/call or check/shove than you get money in as 2to 1 fav or better. [/ QUOTE ] What draws could he have there? 56? QJdd?? [ QUOTE ] You really think you fold to a 4bet shove there? I meant to include in my folding to a 4bet really bad because he has pos and expects a cbet and prob flats with AA/KK a lot. I think folding to the 4bet is really scared poker esp since a lot the time he 4bet shoves I think he has AK as well, and some of them you are freerolling against basically. [/ QUOTE ] I call a shove, but it's not like I'm thrilled with it. I'm pretty sure he has one of 3 hands there when he shoves. Though I'm probably calling since I still have 15k and there is the 5k bounty and there is dead money in there. Let's put it this way...if I knew he was going to shove, I'm not 3 betting. 
|
|
#23
03-13-2007, 10:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
[ QUOTE ]
I would much rather he fold a hand like TT-QQ. I'm a small favorite, but there's a ton of dead money in the pot. He would be correct to call from a FTOP standpoint. [/ QUOTE ] If you think he folds them on this flop when you overbet shove which looks very weak on one of the safest boards for his hands than his PF call is awful because he is turing them into 22 playing for set value. I never see you 2xing pot with AA/KK here postflop ever. [ QUOTE ] after he calls the 5k, I just don't think there are many non-paired, non AK hands that he has there. [/ QUOTE ] Well, I thought he range would be wider since you've been owning him since you've had position and he may try to win a pot off you now that he has position knowing he can shove over your cbet with some FE. [ QUOTE ] What draws could he have there? 56? QJdd?? [/ QUOTE ] well from your read of the flow of the game I could see him trying to finally beat you in a pot make your stackes even and regain control over the table [ QUOTE ] I call a shove, but it's not like I'm thrilled with it. I'm pretty sure he has one of 3 hands there when he shoves. Though I'm probably calling since I still have 15k and there is the 5k bounty and there is dead money in there. [/ QUOTE ] Glad we finally agree on 1 key part of the hand [ QUOTE ] Let's put it this way...if I knew he was going to shove, I'm not 3 betting. [/ QUOTE ] Ya getting in 125 bbs is tough with AKs obv rather be shover than caller but this hand theres nearly no way to do that without making a huge error. It's funny now that I bring that up a small 3bet may be the best way to play this hand like making it 3k. It gives him room to 4bet you to 7-9k and you than can shove and laugh when he folds.
|
|
#24
03-13-2007, 10:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
[ QUOTE ]
Shaun.. we want him to fold mid pairs on this flop. Just cause we're favorite doesn't mean we want him to get all in with us. [/ QUOTE ] yah I forgot about the 10k in the pot already but I still rather check shove than open shove really makes our hand look soo weak as no player of soss caliber would shove AA on that flop.
|
|
#25
03-13-2007, 11:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
"No player of soss caliber would shove AA on that flop"
I disagree. I think we have significantly more folding equity over middle pairs by betting 2x pot here than if we bet .7x pot or whatever. Also, I think check shoving is poor in a spot like this because there is a very good chance that Eli checks behind a lot of mid pair hands for pot control, which would imo be really bad for us.
|
|
#28
03-13-2007, 11:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
[ QUOTE ]
ansky with our hand how is a free card bad? [/ QUOTE ] Cause generally if we hit it'd be pretty hard to get paid off against the hands he is checking behind, and if we miss on the turn and it blanks off, it becomes very difficult to win the pot unimproved, especially because we are oop.
|
|
#29
03-13-2007, 11:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
shaun, its bad because he often checks behind with a middle pair that he would have folded to a flop jam. also while its true that soss probably doesnt jam AA/KK on this flop a lot, its certainly possible that joe random who eli doesnt know shoves them here. lots of unknowns in big tourneys are bad at playing post flop and do things like shove here all day.
|
|
#30
03-13-2007, 11:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shooting Star preflop against Elezra
[ QUOTE ]
"No player of soss caliber would shove AA on that flop" I disagree. I think we have significantly more folding equity over middle pairs by betting 2x pot here than if we bet .7x pot or whatever [/ QUOTE ] Umm if you think the 2nd sentence is true than the 1st one is awful to do since he folds hands that have less than 10% equity. Why would you shove 2x when he folds soo many hands you want him to call if sentence 2 is correct.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
