Cards Speak or do they.

MARK R · #1 10-12-2007, 05:41 AM

There is a big pot and on the river there are 4 diamonds the player who called the last bet flips his cards over and shows AK for pair of A's. The player who was all in shows his cards and basically has a lower pair. The player who made the last bets says the the pots yours to the AK guy. Then another player at the table says wow no one had a diamond. The player who had not shown his cards but still had hold of them now says I have a diomand and shows his cards. Both players want a ruleing of who should win the pot. The floor rule that the player who had not shown his cards had conceeded the pot when he said its yours. I spoke to the floor supervisor later and he still thinks he made the correct decicion. Whats your take on this.

Yes I know you should always table your hand if you are not sure what you have got.

bav · #2 10-12-2007, 06:39 AM

I think in this case I'm not going to get too worked up whichever way the floor rules. Yes, the player appears to have conceded. But he still has possession and full control of his cards and you really want to award the pot to the best hand. But someone violated one player to a hand. But only after it seemed clear the hand was over thanks to the guy saying "the pot's yours". If the guy hadn't said that, thus effectively ending the hand in the mind of the player who spoke up (and probably everybody else), he wouldn't have gotten that extra help.

So I'm pretty happy with that ruling and I lay the blame on the guy who said "the pot's yours". If he'd just sat there mutely holding his cards and someone had said "no diamond" he absolutely gets it. If he'd said "the pot's yours---NOWAIT" I'd give it to him. But the combination of "the pot's yours" and "no diamond" coming as a direct result of that... sorry, but I think the hand died as a result.

On any given day in any given room you're likely to get a different ruling from exactly the same circumstances.

Jauron · #3 10-12-2007, 10:31 AM

It's yours to me means he mucked.

Mazzinger · #4 10-12-2007, 10:42 AM

Usually cards speak for themselves. However, if the player with the lower pair said "It's yours", that's binding and the pot goes to the AK player.

MARK R · #5 10-12-2007, 10:44 AM

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It's yours to me means he mucked.

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I dont think this is the case. Many times people have said to me its yours and at the same time tabled their hand. Only then for someone at the table to spot that he rivered the str8. The pot is then awarded to the player with the str8 because they tabled their hand. I was sure that you could not verbally concede your hand and that you had to chuck your cards in the muck before the pot is awarded to the winning player.

Mark

Jauron · #6 10-12-2007, 11:14 AM

It's not that I don't agree with you, but I think you see a lot of "It's yours", "Take it" which means you have two choices either take them at their word or stall the game waiting for them to much their hand.

It's kinda no win on that decision so I usually stall the game or ask them "is that a muck"?

I've watched guy let go of their hand the second the other player says one of those and always wondered what would happen if player who said it decided not to muck.

bav · #7 10-12-2007, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've watched guy let go of their hand the second the other player says one of those and always wondered what would happen if player who said it decided not to muck.

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To me this is one of those things similar to "forward motion which induces action from a player behind is binding" rules. If you say "take it" and then immediately table your hand then ok, play your cards. If you say "take it" and that induces someone to muck, you just lost. If you say "take it" and someone starts commenting on the 4 diamonds on the board because they now believe the hand is over, and then suddenly you discover you have a diamond in your hand, you just lost because your statement lead folks to reasonably believe you had conceded.

RR · #8 10-12-2007, 03:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Usually cards speak for themselves. However, if the player with the lower pair said "It's yours", that's binding and the pot goes to the AK player.

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Saying "it's yours" is binding if the other player acts on this and mucks their hand instead of showing it. When nobody throws their cards away because of a verbal concession the best hand gets the pot. Note: this is at showdown only, conceding when facing a bet is a different matter.