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#1
10-18-2007, 11:53 AM
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Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
5.50/170 (Private Tourney)
No Reads Converter Not Working. Sorry *********** # 133 ************** PokerStars Game #12682141284: Tournament #63569501, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2007/10/17 - 14:25:48 (ET) Table '63569501 23' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: Totalatarian (6576 in chips) Seat 2: thk100 (2497 in chips) Seat 3: heinekenbob (3147 in chips) Seat 4: cooltul (13387 in chips) Seat 5: HapyFlushDay (845 in chips) Seat 6: NyGhT WiZaRd (2586 in chips) Seat 7: Chicos75 (6505 in chips) Seat 8: swamibrama (3726 in chips) Seat 9: cdread (3428 in chips) NyGhT WiZaRd: posts small blind 100 Chicos75: posts big blind 200 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Chicos75 [Ts Td] swamibrama: folds cdread: folds Totalatarian: folds thk100: calls 200 heinekenbob: folds cooltul: raises 900 to 1100 HapyFlushDay: folds NyGhT WiZaRd: folds Chicos75: calls 900 thk100: folds *** FLOP *** [Qd 9d 9s] Chicos75: checks cooltul: bets 2000 Chicos75: folds cooltul collected 2500 from pot cooltul: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 2500 | Rake 0 Board [Qd 9d 9s] Seat 1: Totalatarian folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: thk100 folded before Flop Seat 3: heinekenbob folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: cooltul collected (2500) Seat 5: HapyFlushDay (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: NyGhT WiZaRd (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: Chicos75 (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 8: swamibrama folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: cdread folded before Flop (didn't bet) 
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#5
10-18-2007, 12:28 PM
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Re: Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
[ QUOTE ]
I was calling, looking to push a flop with undercards. Should I have pushed pre-flop? Lead/Push any flop? Fold preflop? [/ QUOTE ] Personally I like pushing pre, I mean a CO raise over a limper isn't exactly a pillar of strength, we have to be well ahead of his range. I generally don't like calling 15% of my stack PF regardless, and doing it with the intention of just c/f most flops is pretty gross. My point was, well, 2 things. First, you can't just call here then get it in when the flop is all unders or you hit a T, that's not going to happen enough to make the PF call profitable. However, folding TT to a CO raise is like beyond gross, so that can't be right either. Like I said I like shoving pre. Since you called, this really isn't a bad flop. Only one over, and it's not an A or a K. I'd argue that if you called PF with the intention of getting it in on a good flop that you would need to get it in on a flop like this in order to make the PF call profitable. That being said, this spot sucks doesn't it? Calling pre leaves you OOP, with an awkward stack size, with hand that is pretty tough to play on most flops, but a monster preflop.
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#6
10-18-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
Id shove with less than TT here.
CO range prob something like {22+, A7+, A2s+, K9s+, KT+, QJ+, JTs+} Hes folding a big part of that range to a shove. Even if he only calls with a fairly tight range of {JJ+, AQs+, AK}, you still have ~36% equity. With all of your FE, shoving in this spot, is easily +EV, and way more profitable than calling PrF.
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#7
10-18-2007, 01:06 PM
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Re: Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
[ QUOTE ]
shoving in this spot, is easily +EV, and way more profitable than calling PrF. [/ QUOTE ] QFT -ZEN
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#8
10-18-2007, 02:32 PM
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Re: Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] shoving in this spot, is easily +EV, and way more profitable than calling PrF. [/ QUOTE ] QFT -ZEN [/ QUOTE ] Interesting problem. Let's say you assume that PFR's raising range is 88+; A10+, which is fair. Can we throw in KcQc. Sure, let's do that too. 1600 in the pot already and the raise is kinduv big/not a "pillar of strength." But could be AA/KK hoping for commitment, who knows. Let's further assume that this limper blows and is going to fold to your 4-bet. He could be trapping, but at the $5 level, I think it's like 70% something donkish and he'll fold to your 4-bet. He may call if you flat call the raise with trash like KJo if you call. And that would suck because now you are basically worried about all four overs. Roughly, I think PFR folds about 50% of his raising range, so +800 FE. I think he calls with AQo+; JJ+. I could be wrong about AQo, but probably not at this level. And I factor in half of my AA/KK only because, as pointed out, this is not likely to be AA/KK. So, you're at 43% if he calls, with the chips already in the middle and your stack, this is a good shove. Barry
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#9
10-18-2007, 02:57 PM
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Re: Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] shoving in this spot, is easily +EV, and way more profitable than calling PrF. [/ QUOTE ] QFT -ZEN [/ QUOTE ] Interesting problem. Let's say you assume that PFR's raising range is 88+; A10+, which is fair. Can we throw in KcQc. Sure, let's do that too. 1600 in the pot already and the raise is kinduv big/not a "pillar of strength." But could be AA/KK hoping for commitment, who knows. Let's further assume that this limper blows and is going to fold to your 4-bet. He could be trapping, but at the $5 level, I think it's like 70% something donkish and he'll fold to your 4-bet. He may call if you flat call the raise with trash like KJo if you call. And that would suck because now you are basically worried about all four overs. Roughly, I think PFR folds about 50% of his raising range, so +800 FE. I think he calls with AQo+; JJ+. I could be wrong about AQo, but probably not at this level. And I factor in half of my AA/KK only because, as pointed out, this is not likely to be AA/KK. So, you're at 43% if he calls, with the chips already in the middle and your stack, this is a good shove. Barry [/ QUOTE ] Your assumed range for CO is way too narrow, IMO. But, even with it...assuming limper folds when we shove. {AA-88, AT+, KQs+} 105 hands Calls a shove with {JJ+, AQ+}...(AA-KK are equally as likely as QQ-JJ) 55 hands 55/105=52.3% 1-.523=.477 EV=.477*1600+.523[(13310)(.4011)-6305] EV=763.2-505.4 EV=257.8 fwiw, our FE is probably much higher.
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#10
10-18-2007, 03:34 PM
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Re: Tough Spot with TT. Line Check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] shoving in this spot, is easily +EV, and way more profitable than calling PrF. [/ QUOTE ] QFT -ZEN [/ QUOTE ] Interesting problem. Let's say you assume that PFR's raising range is 88+; A10+, which is fair. Can we throw in KcQc. Sure, let's do that too. 1600 in the pot already and the raise is kinduv big/not a "pillar of strength." But could be AA/KK hoping for commitment, who knows. Let's further assume that this limper blows and is going to fold to your 4-bet. He could be trapping, but at the $5 level, I think it's like 70% something donkish and he'll fold to your 4-bet. He may call if you flat call the raise with trash like KJo if you call. And that would suck because now you are basically worried about all four overs. Roughly, I think PFR folds about 50% of his raising range, so +800 FE. I think he calls with AQo+; JJ+. I could be wrong about AQo, but probably not at this level. And I factor in half of my AA/KK only because, as pointed out, this is not likely to be AA/KK. So, you're at 43% if he calls, with the chips already in the middle and your stack, this is a good shove. Barry [/ QUOTE ] Your assumed range for CO is way too narrow, IMO. But, even with it...assuming limper folds when we shove. {AA-88, AT+, KQs+} 105 hands Calls a shove with {JJ+, AQ+}...(AA-KK are equally as likely as QQ-JJ) 55 hands 55/105=52.3% 1-.523=.477 EV=.477*1600+.523[(13310)(.4011)-6305] EV=763.2-505.4 EV=257.8 fwiw, our FE is probably much higher. [/ QUOTE ] pped...where do you play that you constantly put people on such weak ATC type moves al the time? I don't disagree that this is a shove pre but I think it's close..reads would help but I think you are advocating too wide a range with our stack at a solid level...just my two cents
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