uSNL in case you missed it: How's your uNL?: 56s

[AKQJ10]

How's your uNL?: 56s

Great hand quiz. Don't do like I did, and decide that the after the preflop and flop action you're no longer interested in the continuation because your cards would be in the muck. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also don't feel bad if you miss the "big question". I certainly would have. It's most important to understand the reasoning here.

[raze]

I just did it & recommend it

[ItalianFX]

I got all of them right except the last one..that's probably why I suck at poker! haha

[Pov]

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I got all of them right except the last one..that's probably why I suck at poker! haha

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I'm not picking on you, but I think this is important for beginners to really think about. Of all the decisions, the last one is the big money decision.

Let's say defending with 65s is a mistake whether you agree with that or not. How big of a mistake is it? Well it can't be a bigger mistake than the amount of the call and of course you'll win some of the time so all in all, this mistake can't be that large. When the BB re-raises, you are putting some more money in the pot, but the stacks are deeper, so as a percentage of stacks, you're faced with a similar decision in many ways. However, based upon the description given, this isn't really the case because it is unlikely this opponent will allow himself to be stacked without making a significant hand. But once again, this mistake can't be any larger than the size of the call.

On the end, we're making a call for considerably more money. Of all the decisions in the hand, this one dwarfs everything else. So spend your time learning the reasoning for this part of the hand! Getting the earlier decisions right and boning this one is like correctly signaling while pulling directly in front of a speeding Mack truck.

[AKQJ10]

Pov, your point is well taken but there are two components to the importance of a leak: magnitude * frequency. As you observed, the magnitude of this one's a doozy at 260 BBL stacks! But the frequency isn't too great, because of all that has to happen for this situation to arise, starting with both actors obtaining 260 BBL stacks. See my post on there about the parlay.

I hope I'm not in denial -- I'm definitely taking that quiz to heart and using it to become a better hand reader.

As I said there, the biggest lesson for me is, don't stay in a deep game against a 2+2er to your right and a nit to your left! At least, not unless the 2+2er doesn't learn much from what he reads or the nit is extremely weak tight.

[ItalianFX]

My problem sometimes comes when I feel like they are toying with me and I don't believe them. Or they play two pair passively and they let me dump away my chips. Poker has been frustrating for me lately no matter how much I tell myself that I'm only learning.

[Splossy]

I think the frequency of the generic error is high enough to be problematic - I think that error is calling large river bets without thinking the play through properly just because you have a big hand.

I had a call like this 2 days ago. On looking back it was SO bvious the guy had quad queens on the river given the play and the size of his bet. But could I fold my boat? Like hell I could. Zeebo Theorem in full effect.

[AKQJ10]

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I don't believe them.

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Suspicion can be very expensive at small-stakes NL. I don't mean that no one ever bluffs, of course, or that you should always fold the second-nuts on the river. But you will find yourself time and time again feeling dumb when you call down with TT on a jack-high board only to be shown AJ or something.

First rule of thumb: When you're in doubt, assume people have what they're representing.

Second rule of thumb: I'm trying this one out in my own game, what I call the "Rule of Three." Don't assume someone's putting a play on you until the third time you see them exert what looks like undue aggression. If they show a bluff that might supersede the Rule of Three, but don't just assume they're a bluffer because they raised you off a hand. Sometimes straightforward players get monsters two hands in a row.

[Pov]

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...two components to the importance of a leak: magnitude * frequency...

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Very true, but I think most of the profit I've stumbled into in uNL has come from exactly this sort of thing only in my favor. It's often not this big, but it's also more frequent for smaller stacks. Overpairs paying off two low pair for half a stack on the river. Straights paying off flushes, etc.

But more to the point, think of it this way - if your winrate never making this kind of mistake was 10 BBL / 100. How many hands would you have to play to make up for this one bad one? The frequency can be quite low and still make you a loser.

The interesting corollary to this is why the skillful LAG can be so successful. You can make a lot of preflop and flop "mistakes" if it allows you to stack someone every once in a while.

[AKQJ10]

Very good points. (NLHE:TAP has a good elaboration of that last corollary.) I've certainly put in a lot of thought about this hand.