Save the money or burn it?

[luckychewy]

If you are calling to try and fill up then bet less on the turn so his raise is less...as played push turn if you're going to call river. I'm unsure if turn is a clear check/bet but I have to lean towards betting around 75-80 here. Will he check raise here without a flush EVER?

good math guys, keep it coming

[TheWorstPlayer]

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i do not like checking behind on the turn. you guys are being so results oriented, seeing as grim got check-raised. grim is LAG and people will pay him off with one pair hands here. you lose SO MUCH value against other hands, like top pair with/without a diamond. checking behind is such a weak play, you have a set and just because the flush draw hit does not mean that you are ALWAYS up against a flush. what about lower sets? two pair? you lose so much value by checking behind.

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[amoeba]

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i do not like checking behind on the turn. you guys are being so results oriented, seeing as grim got check-raised. grim is LAG and people will pay him off with one pair hands here. you lose SO MUCH value against other hands, like top pair with/without a diamond. checking behind is such a weak play, you have a set and just because the flush draw hit does not mean that you are ALWAYS up against a flush. what about lower sets? two pair? you lose so much value by checking behind.

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what made hands do you see paying him off? theres only 1 king out there and I highly doubt sets are playing it this slow on the flop.

if you are happy betting the turn, then you should be happy getting it all in regardless of whether 4 flush occurs on the river.

[TheWorstPlayer]

QdQx, JdJx, AdXx, set, other random stuff, people who like to bluff c/r flushy turns, why give 2d2x a free shot to beat you on the river? many other reasons, too. and fine, maybe you're happy getting it all in on a diamond river (although he may bluff with the best hand with something like 2d2x) but maybe HE won't be. you should bet the turn as much because another diamond may kill your action as for the fact that it may kill your hand.

[amoeba]

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QdQx, JdJx, AdXx, set, other random stuff, people who like to bluff c/r flushy turns

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if you think villain is likely to bluff c/r flushy turns a large percentage of the time then by all means bet the turn.


yes I'm giving QdQx, JdJx, etc chance to win the pot. Thats fine, its a small pot in which I've invested barely 1/10 my stack. I lose money if the 4th diamond hits and he was on one of these hands, I gain money if 4th diamond hits and he was on the flush. if the 4th diamond does not hit, I make the same regardless of whether I bet the turn or check the turn as I don't think QQ is calling a river bet should a 4th diamond not hit. With the check line however, I'm gaining an extra bet from QxQx, JxJx, etc.. made hands with no diamonds when river blanks. I think this more than equals if not overcompensates for the times that villain has a diamond, and a 4th diamond hits.

With the check, I also avoid going broke to flushes and have a free chance to bust them should the board pair.

basically I think if you are betting the turn here, then you are committed to this pot (because you believe villains range is so wide that flush is very unlikely), even if villain does something like checkraise all in. I just don't think this is the case.

I find no need to protect such a small pot with so much money behind and the ability to win a huge pot.

[TheWorstPlayer]

This pot is not that small. And QdQx will call on the turn since they may be ahead and if they aren't their draw may be good. But they may c/f the river. Particularly if an ace or J hits or whatever. Both for value and for protection there is absolutely no reason not to bet this turn. Even if you're behind, you have plenty of outs. And you are ahead a vast majority of the time and should not be checking.

[yvesaint]

amoeba,

i think you underestimate the times SB has something other than a flush draw with a flop check/call. and a lot of those non flush draw hands have a diamond in them

[Big_Jim]

If you're going to call river, might as well push turn, while you still have equity.

[Yeti]

FWIW I too think the turn is a bet (although it is much more of a bet in the 2k game than the 600). I was gonna comment a couple of days ago but after rereading amoeba's arrogant posts figured I must be missing something. I'm glad some of the others decided to chip in.