KK when an ace flops and I get bet into

[TimovieMan]

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Ur equity is still 47.3%. Therefor folding is out of the question.

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I'm NEVER folding this, unless my opponent’s the most passive player ever, but I admit it’s easy to think “that ace has me drawing to three outs, so I’d better save myself the bets that I’ll lose”.
That’s why I’m taking the calldown-approach.

But there certainly is some merit in raising.
We’re heads-up and I posted so perhaps he may assume I’m 3-betting a bit lighter which makes him cap lighter as well.
If I raise the flop, I’m basically saying “your bet doesn’t scare me”. But if I raise and I have him beat, he’ll just fold, and that’s not good…
But on the other hand if he has me beat he’ll re-raise. That’ll make me fold and saves me some big bets on the turn and river. But if he just calls (perhaps with an AQ?), then I’ll lose some more bets on the bigger streets…
Dunno, can’t say which is best against an unknown…


That does it: I’m staying with the “call when bet into and bet when checked into and fold when check-raised”-approach. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Which happens to be exactly what I did in this specific hand… [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[LateFlag]

[ QUOTE ]
But there certainly is some merit in raising.
We’re heads-up and I posted so perhaps he may assume I’m 3-betting a bit lighter which makes him cap lighter as well.
If I raise the flop, I’m basically saying “your bet doesn’t scare me”. But if I raise and I have him beat, he’ll just fold, and that’s not good…

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Right. When you're ahead, you've got villain crushed. Folding him out when he was willing to give action is very bad.

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But on the other hand if he has me beat he’ll re-raise. That’ll make me fold and saves me some big bets on the turn and river. But if he just calls (perhaps with an AQ?), then I’ll lose some more bets on the bigger streets…

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Raising may actually cost you more if villain is cagey. If I were villain and I had AK and you raised my flop bet, I would frequently call your raise, check-call the turn, and bet the river. Or maybe I would call the flop raise and check-raise the turn. Not all villains are going to be friendly enough to instantly 3-bet the flop for you.

Sometimes raising the flop works out against a predictable opponent. For example, you might be able to raise the flop, check the turn, and call a river bet (or bet the turn and check down on the river). That gets you to showdown for 2 BBs instead of the 2.5 BBs it costs you to get to showdown using call-call-call.

Generally, though, call-call-call is going to be a better line. It might cost you an extra SB when you lose, but it will frequently gain a couple of extra BBs when villain has QQ or JJ.

[LukeSLTS]

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Suppose his range is JJ+, AK. Let's say we iclude only 3*JJ (since most people don't cap it). Ur equity is still 47.3%. Therefor folding is out of the question. Raising sucks in general here. Only exception would be if we knew villain only 3-bet >Ax AND he called down QQ-JJ. The best line by far agaisnt unknown/normal player is to call down IMO.

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I agree. If the villain decides to check any street we can bet for value then.

[Todd]

This is tough. My capping range tends to be very very narrow. Like QQ+ AKs, but my three betting range tends to be wide open.

As such, I would be quite nervous that he has AK. I think the average player with AA will not donk into you, preferring to pummel you on the turn.

I have not run into many people that will donk an A-hi flop without an Ace, into a preflop 3-bettor.

So, my weak passive play would be to call down, and hope he is overplaying his QQ, JJ.

[Second Toughest]

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EV of folding is -2 BB (the money we've already invested)

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Actually, I think it's nil.

Position is an advantage here. Call down. Only hands that will fold to a flop raise are the ones you don’t want to.

[TimovieMan]

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I have not run into many people that will donk an A-hi flop without an Ace, into a preflop 3-bettor.

So, my weak passive play would be to call down, and hope he is overplaying his QQ, JJ.

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You'll be surprised how many times someone does this without an ace. All of them thinking "I just have to fold him out or at least be certain that our queens or jacks are beaten".

Besides, in this case, he wasn't donking. He was the preflop capper, so it's more of a c-bet...

[Mr.Busto]

nuero is a beast
keep calcin man
hurt thread, have to rip bong again cuz of it

[Xylocain]

[ QUOTE ]
nuero is a beast
keep calcin man
hurt thread, have to rip bong again cuz of it

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know what this means ... but ther ahas to be a NC-title in there.