EPT Barcelona, Bluffing and Catching bluffs

[Stumpy]

Obviously live sometimes tells you can't really explain well make you do certain things.
If that's all Ansky feels hand 4 is, it's probably not worth beating it to death.

If it's more than that, I picked it out because to me it's the most unorthodox play in the set of hands, and so far only NYWalker likes calling, but his intent is a river bluff when no spade hits.

[Ansky]

In my mind, when I saw the guy in hand 4 looking around and looking at the pot, it just felt like he was screaming out that he was trying to build up the courage to take the pot away from what was obv a marginal hand.

You will notice, in some of these spots I have told you the physical tells, and others I haven't. The spots where I thought I saw relevant physical tells I told them, and where I thought there was nothing I said nothing.

[NYWalker]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 4.
New table, I am chip leader of the tournament at 300/600, w/ like 90k. 4-5 limpers I check w/ J5o in the bb.

Flop comes KJ7 w/ 2 spades. checked to aggro /active guy who looks around at everyone, appearing to gauge their interest in the pot, and he fires out like 2500 (he was CO iirc). button folds, I call, rest fold.

Turn is a 8 of spades, I do not have a spade. I check, he looks at me for prob 5 seconds, looks at the board, checks his stack and pulls out 7k, I call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Physical tell is one thing. But when I read this hand, the size of turn bet is very important. That's how I spot villain's intention. Naturally, a made flush will bet for value. 7500 is at most one spade and ask us to fold.

But I don't c/r here in case he moves in with a better jack plus one spade or a weak King one spade. He obviously has something on the board and semi-bluff hoping to take it down there. When we smooth call, it may indicate to him we are ahead here and we checked to him waiting for a bet.

We also have one advantage - act first at the river, this is also why for a turn call plus river bet is better than c/r the turn. With a safe river, bet the amount that he can't bluff. a King or better Jack would fold.

(Nice play Ansky. I'll read the rest hands today. Don't want to have all the fun in one day.)

[gobboboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to post a bunch of the big bluff/bluffcatching hands I played in Barcelona, tell me which you think were good/worked, which were bad/didn't work.

Hand 1.

Early on in day 1, 2 to my left is TerrorOfSweden, aka TheTerrorist, aka Mohhamed Kouseri or some [censored] like that. In the first 2 levels he was playing batshit insane, like 90% vpip, never folded to rr preflop, overall just absolutely insane, calling most cbets.

Stacks are roughly 25k effectiveI raise K8ss to 450 at 75/150 in mp, ToS calls, bb calls. Flop is 467r, check, I bet 900, ToS calls. turn is a 4x. I check, he bets 1500 and I make it 4500.

Hand 2.
I raise 64hh at 100/200 from the button to 600, ToS calls.

Flop comes Aj4 w/ 2 spades, he checks calls 800. Turn is a low spade, check check. River is a K of spades, he checks I bet 2k.

Hand 3. 200/400 blinds w/ a 50 ante. I might be chip leader at this pt w/ like 70k. Guy to my left is a real nice Romanian dude, who was real bad at poker. Seemed to play real tight in all the wrong spots, and real loose in all the wrong spots. We had been chatting it up and he really seemed to think i was awesome. Overall he has shown himself to be aggro when in the pot if he had top pair or better, and real passive w/ bluff catching hands.

I raise the button w/ 92o to 1200, he flats in the sb ( he has like 35k).

Flop AJ2 w/ 2 of some suit, he checks I bet 2000 he calls.

turn is a brick, 6 or something, he checks I bet 6000.

Hand 4.
New table, I am chip leader of the tournament at 300/600, w/ like 90k. 4-5 limpers I check w/ J5o in the bb.

Flop comes KJ7 w/ 2 spades. checked to aggro /active guy who looks around at everyone, appearing to gauge their interest in the pot, and he fires out like 2500 (he was CO iirc). button folds, I call, rest fold.

Turn is a 8 of spades, I do not have a spade. I check, he looks at me for prob 5 seconds, looks at the board, checks his stack and pulls out 7k, I call?

Hand 5. I raise 33 utg to 1800, folds to bb who calls. Flop is 47T w/ 2 spades. He check calls 3k.

Turn 4x. ck ck. river Kx. He quickly pulls out 6k and slides it into the middle. I call.

Hand 6. First hand of day 2, I raise emp 8 handed to 2500 at 400/800 w/ a6ss. (I had 105k) Folds to sb-- young aggro danish online pro (who i didnt know at first) looks at me, looks at my stack looks at his stack, then finally looks at his cards, and instantly cuts out 7500 and sticks it in hte middle, he has ~23k after the 7500.

I shove.

Hand 7.
Same villain as before, I raise 66 ep to 3600 at 600/1200, mp calls, villain calls in sb.

Flop 24K w/ 2 diamonds. He checks, I bet 10k, mp folds, bb calls. Turn 4x, he checks I check. River T of diamonds. He checks after 7 secs or so, I put him all in for 45k.

Hand 8. Very active swedish dude is to my left. At some pt a baller swedish dude who is friends w/ lodden came over to tell us how awesome swedish dude at my table was, and how he was like the next coming of euroLagtard #393.

I open raise A5o in the CO to 6000 at 1k2k, he calls on the button (he has 3bet me several times, and once 4bet me when i limp raised from the sb--i folded every time).

flop is A63r. I bet 10k, he makes it 28k leaving himself 18k or so more. I put him in for the rest.


I pretty much have decided which ones I think are awesome and which are dreadful, but I want to hear other opinions.

I learned more about live pokre than I ever could have imagined w/ this trip, and I'm pretty sure it doubled my ROI for my next live tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. ok

2. ok

3. eh, marginal and probably bad

4. flop is awful, turn is worse

5. OK

6. very bad

7. way worse than 6. this was against an online tournament player, right? This is really really bad

8. good!

-Jeff (on gobbos account)

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
3. eh, marginal and probably bad

[/ QUOTE ]

why? my new 'friends' always fold to me live.

[ QUOTE ]

4. flop is awful, turn is worse


[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think about the tells? Sorry jeff, some of us just never have top pair and therefore have to make our money somewhere.

[ QUOTE ]
6. very bad

[/ QUOTE ]

agree very much

[ QUOTE ]
7. way worse than 6. this was against an online tournament player, right? This is really really bad


[/ QUOTE ]
disagree.

I'd like to know what u expect most online donkementers to call w/ here.

[NYWalker]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 5. I raise 33 utg to 1800, folds to bb who calls. Flop is 47T w/ 2 spades. He check calls 3k.

Turn 4x. ck ck. river Kx. He quickly pulls out 6k and slides it into the middle. I call.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a fold. He could have a flush draw and pair up a K at the river. Also, betsize is right for value.

PF is a limp.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 6. First hand of day 2, I raise emp 8 handed to 2500 at 400/800 w/ a6ss. (I had 105k) Folds to sb-- young aggro danish online pro (who i didnt know at first) looks at me, looks at my stack looks at his stack, then finally looks at his cards, and instantly cuts out 7500 and sticks it in hte middle, he has ~23k after the 7500.

I shove.


[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, I fold.

But, you have enough phsyical tell to shove.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 7.
Same villain as before, I raise 66 ep to 3600 at 600/1200, mp calls, villain calls in sb.

Flop 24K w/ 2 diamonds. He checks, I bet 10k, mp folds, bb calls. Turn 4x, he checks I check. River T of diamonds. He checks after 7 secs or so, I put him all in for 45k.



[/ QUOTE ]

I would check behind. Only air would fold. Given his flop call and turn check, river check, if he has no air then he has you beat.

Our push is weak. It doesn't rep flush, doesn't rep King here.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 8.
I open raise A5o in the CO to 6000 at 1k2k, he calls on the button (he has 3bet me several times, and once 4bet me when i limp raised from the sb--i folded every time).

flop is A63r. I bet 10k, he makes it 28k leaving himself 18k or so more. I put him in for the rest.


[/ QUOTE ]

Edit:I need to think about this again.

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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Hand 5. I raise 33 utg to 1800, folds to bb who calls. Flop is 47T w/ 2 spades. He check calls 3k.

Turn 4x. ck ck. river Kx. He quickly pulls out 6k and slides it into the middle. I call.



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This is a fold. He could have a flush draw and pair up a K at the river. Also, betsize is right for value.

PF is a limp.


[/ QUOTE ]


there are way more combos of flush draws that missed than hit the king.
limping preflop is pretty exploitable and looks a lot like what i have. w/ my huge stack, i think not raising is a mistake, though folding is prob ok too.

Also, i should have pointed out, it was the very end of day 1, and for some reason, live players tighten the [censored] up at the end of days.

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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Hand 6. First hand of day 2, I raise emp 8 handed to 2500 at 400/800 w/ a6ss. (I had 105k) Folds to sb-- young aggro danish online pro (who i didnt know at first) looks at me, looks at my stack looks at his stack, then finally looks at his cards, and instantly cuts out 7500 and sticks it in hte middle, he has ~23k after the 7500.

I shove.



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Normally, I fold.

But, you have enough phsyical tell to shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

obv th standard is to fold, agreed. But I think I convinced myself to shove w/ the possibly fake or possibly real tells.

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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Hand 7.
Same villain as before, I raise 66 ep to 3600 at 600/1200, mp calls, villain calls in sb.

Flop 24K w/ 2 diamonds. He checks, I bet 10k, mp folds, bb calls. Turn 4x, he checks I check. River T of diamonds. He checks after 7 secs or so, I put him all in for 45k.




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I would check behind. Only air would fold. Given his flop call and turn check, river check, if he has no air then he has you beat.

Our push is weak. It doesn't rep flush, doesn't rep King here.


[/ QUOTE ]

it certainly does rep a flush. king... not so much.

[NYWalker]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, i should have pointed out, it was the very end of day 1, and for some reason, live players tighten the [censored] up at the end of days.


[/ QUOTE ]
that does make a different spin. raise is good in this case. the entire play makes different given it's end of day 1.


[ QUOTE ]


obv th standard is to fold, agreed. But I think I convinced myself to shove w/ the possibly fake or possibly real tells.


[/ QUOTE ]

Then, the shove is a great play! Good gutz.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 7 - river shove.
it certainly does rep a flush. king... not so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree.
Back to hand reading, why didn't the King bet on the turn?
Why flush is a shove? He would talk to himself "I show no strengh and interest in the pot at the turn, why he pushes me out at the river if he a hand?".

On the other hand, what if villain has a flush and check to us? (turn was check/check, right?)

[NYWalker]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 8. Very active swedish dude is to my left. At some pt a baller swedish dude who is friends w/ lodden came over to tell us how awesome swedish dude at my table was, and how he was like the next coming of euroLagtard #393.

I open raise A5o in the CO to 6000 at 1k2k, he calls on the button (he has 3bet me several times, and once 4bet me when i limp raised from the sb--i folded every time).

flop is A63r. I bet 10k, he makes it 28k leaving himself 18k or so more. I put him in for the rest.



[/ QUOTE ]

Why he suddenly didn't 3-bet you this time? Did he put you on Ace on the flop? As played, I fold.

[Stumpy]

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind, when I saw the guy in hand 4 looking around and looking at the pot, it just felt like he was screaming out that he was trying to build up the courage to take the pot away from what was obv a marginal hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. I feel like his turn tell is the opposite though. A pretty strong hand that's really unhappy with the flush hitting.

Why do you think your hand is obviously marginal just by checking the flop first to act in a 5 way pot?
I can see why it looks marginal after you just call.
Even if you think he's FOS enough to call, you've got 2 or 3 people left to act behind you, and you're giving them great odds.

If you felt like he was really working up the courage to bluff, did you expect he'd continue bluffing on the turn and river?
If not, given how weak your hand is, why not raise the flop, push out any draws behind you, and make him fold?
Even bluffs have quite a bit of equity against your hand, and you've giving ones that give up on the turn 2 free cards.