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#41
07-20-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Did you skip the part where the Davidians set the fires themselves that ultimately led to their deaths? [/ QUOTE ] Source? [/ QUOTE ] Most of what I turned up during a google search was of the conspiracy nut variety, but I recall two pieces of evidence: Infrared cameras trained on the compound from an orbiting helicopter indicated that the fire originated in three separate locations. By the end of the seige, the FBI had managed to place bugs inside the compound. They aired audiotapes of Davidians talking about setting fires in the moments before it began. 
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#42
07-20-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
As a joke? [/ QUOTE ] I don't have a source, and my memory is a little rusty given this happened over a decade ago, but I recall the media reporting on two things-- 1. FBI surveillance tapes with stuff like "hey, pour more of that fuel over here." Forged, obv. 2. Arson investigators finding traces of accelerants on Davidians' clothing. There's stuff about it in Wikipedia, but that's kind of lame as a source.
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#43
07-20-2007, 12:47 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Did you skip the part where the Davidians set the fires themselves that ultimately led to their deaths? [/ QUOTE ] Source? [/ QUOTE ] Most of what I turned up during a google search was of the conspiracy nut variety, but I recall two pieces of evidence: Infrared cameras trained on the compound from an orbiting helicopter indicated that the fire originated in three separate locations. By the end of the seige, the FBI had managed to place bugs inside the compound. They aired audiotapes of Davidians talking about setting fires in the moments before it began. [/ QUOTE ] In that same video we see numerous numerous numerous gunfire from outside while the stuff is burning, and the cops claim they never fired one shot. Clearly you understand that we're gonna have to hear said audio before I believe one word of that.
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#44
07-20-2007, 01:41 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Did you skip the part where the Davidians set the fires themselves that ultimately led to their deaths? [/ QUOTE ] Source? [/ QUOTE ] Most of what I turned up during a google search was of the conspiracy nut variety, but I recall two pieces of evidence: Infrared cameras trained on the compound from an orbiting helicopter indicated that the fire originated in three separate locations. By the end of the seige, the FBI had managed to place bugs inside the compound. They aired audiotapes of Davidians talking about setting fires in the moments before it began. [/ QUOTE ] Just saying that "the davidians started the fire, obviii" and leaving it at that is tremendously stupid. I don't know whether they did or did not, but if it was the davidians that started the fire (dubious, things point both ways), they did it because of the atmosphere created by the FBI. Koresh was an insane guy who thought he was a prophet who was supposed to interpret parts of the bible about the end of the world and the apocalypse, so what does the FBI do? They siege the house, use pyschological warfare, shoot CS gas into the house (in very high doses, while there were children inside.... how can you defend this???), etc, creating a situation that is pretty close to an apocalypse or whatnot. If there is a religious nut who thinks he is sent by God to interpret the apocalypse, a bunch of his believers, and a bunch of children, what do you do? Create a situation that would legitimately convince Koresh that the apocalypse was actually coming? Uh.... how does this make sense? Like, gee, big [censored] suprise that if you do this to a bunch of religious nuts they are going to go overboard. Great gameplan FBI, a lot of children died because of this.
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#45
07-20-2007, 01:51 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
Also, a big part of the reason that we know so little about what really happened is because of the FBI coverup. There was never much forensic work or any thorough autopsies, guess why? How can people trust anything the government or FBI has to say about this if they lied about all the other stuff? Serious question.
The easiest way to sum this up is: Overzealous ATF decides to make a big raid for show against a target that will never be taken credibly by the public. ATF totally screws up raid, which was never necessary or warranted in the first place, siege ensues. The FBI comes in and starts gassing (with children inside... I know I sound like a broken record but WHAT THEY DID WAS INSANE) and psy-opping the self appointed religious prophet inside, pretty much guaranteeing that he will do something crazy. The house burns down, then FBI destroys as much evidence as they can, and lies for years about the methods they used. If you watch the video of guys like Schumer, you can see that the government never seriously tried to find the truth out, they just blindly absolved the FBI and ATF of everything they did wrong. EDIT- forgot to add: My point was, this is just a situation that spiraled out and out of control after the initial mistake by the ATF because the government refused to admit its mistake. It all got to a point where the only acceptable outcome for the FBI and ATF was the total destruction of the house and all the people inside.
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#46
07-20-2007, 01:57 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
Those gassings are a [censored] crimes against humanity.
If a private company would have done such a thing said company would have been KO the next day and they would probably get life in prison or worse.
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#47
07-20-2007, 02:01 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
The CPS had nothing to do with this... it was the ATF... and the Branch Dividians were no threat to anyone. They were weird and so they were slaughtered. [/ QUOTE ] Weren't there accusations of child rape?
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#48
07-20-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
Those gassings are a [censored] crimes against humanity. If a private company would have done such a thing said company would have been KO the next day and they would probably get life in prison or worse. [/ QUOTE ] And if a private company arrested and imprisoned someone for murder, they would be guilty of assault, battery, and kidnapping. What's your point?
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#49
07-20-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The CPS had nothing to do with this... it was the ATF... and the Branch Dividians were no threat to anyone. They were weird and so they were slaughtered. [/ QUOTE ] Weren't there accusations of child rape? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. Not many people know that the "F" in "ATF" stands for "Child protection"
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#50
07-20-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: I learned about waco tonight..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Those gassings are a [censored] crimes against humanity. If a private company would have done such a thing said company would have been KO the next day and they would probably get life in prison or worse. [/ QUOTE ] And if a private company arrested and imprisoned someone for murder, they would be guilty of assault, battery, and kidnapping. What's your point? [/ QUOTE ] Not necesarily. You can negotiate such terms with a representative.
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