Tanenbaum or Stox?

[Adman]

His Advanced Strategy book is both a combination of stuff he has written for Card Player (some of which has been reworked) and all new material. The Shorthanded book is written by two Shorthanded experts named Terry Borer and Lawrence Mak with BT acting as a collaborator. To be honest, you could give the Advanced book a miss. It's pretty good but not "essential" however the SH book is a must have for any serious limit hold 'em player. It is the best material available on short handed play. I don't know of anyone yet who has read this book that wasn't highly impressed by it.

[BlueSmurf]

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however the SH book is a must have for any serious limit hold 'em player. It is the best material available on short handed play. I don't know of anyone yet who has read this book that wasn't highly impressed by it.

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Listen to Adman. He speaks the truth [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The Tanenbaum book is okay with some good points, but the Borer/Mak book is really good.

/Smurf

[Rick Nebiolo]

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His Advanced Strategy book is both a combination of stuff he has written for Card Player (some of which has been reworked) and all new material.

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I'll probably get it given I'm in LA and don't play much higher than 20/40; from the CP articles Barry's style is fairly well suited for these mid level full ring games.


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The Shorthanded book is written by two Shorthanded experts named Terry Borer and Lawrence Mak with BT acting as a collaborator. To be honest, you could give the Advanced book a miss. It's pretty good but not "essential" however the SH book is a must have for any serious limit hold 'em player. It is the best material available on short handed play. I don't know of anyone yet who has read this book that wasn't highly impressed by it.

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It will be interesting to compare this with the Stox book. There's not too much short play in LA B&M below 40/80 but sometimes the short strategy can be applied when you have walkers or the game is starting and tight.

Thanks for the heads up.

~ Rick

[vmacosta]

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His Advanced Strategy book is both a combination of stuff he has written for Card Player (some of which has been reworked) and all new material. The Shorthanded book is written by two Shorthanded experts named Terry Borer and Lawrence Mak with BT acting as a collaborator. To be honest, you could give the Advanced book a miss. It's pretty good but not "essential" however the SH book is a must have for any serious limit hold 'em player. It is the best material available on short handed play. I don't know of anyone yet who has read this book that wasn't highly impressed by it.

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qft. i have spent way too much time thinking about SH LHE over the last few years and I was still very impressed with the quality of the SH book. stox's book is great too, but it is really a precursor to Mak and Borer's more in-depth material.

[nomdeplume]

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stox's book is great too, but it is really a precursor to Mak and Borer's more in-depth material.

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HUH?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Let me just say that I liked the D&B shorthanded book. It's easy to read and I'd recommend it. But to suggest that WITHG is a "precursor" to the D&B book is just nonsense. Seriously.

They both contain numerous hand examples and offer good advice. However IMO the depth and quality of analysis in the Stox book is WAY better than in the D&B book. Also (and this is my main point) the D&B book only *touch* on blind defence. They offer a VERY tight defending range as their 'default', then add the cautionary advice that you should 'play looser' against very aggressive opponents. That's it. They also give very sketchy advice about SB vs BB hands. This is a huge omission given the nature of online six max games.

Stox, by comparison, has used actual databases from winning players to formulate a coherent blind defence strategy, including SB vs BB, restealing from SB, playing from the BB when SB three bets and so on. His book also includes a seperate quiz containing 448 questions to practice blind defence decisions when adjusting to player ranges.

Now granted, the D&B book contains advice about three handed and heads up play, which the Stox book doesn't. But these short chapters hardly warrant the suggestion that the Stox book is somehow a watered down version of the D&B book. The other additional material is basic stuff that most players who are ready to tackle six max will already know about (player metrics, bankroll considerations, tilt etc.)

I can understand that some people may prefer the style of the D&B book to the Stox book, but that's quite different to saying it's a better book.

IMO it's the other way around. If you are new to six max online then I'd suggest getting the borer book first. It's a good book. I'm sure it will help to turn losers into winning players at the low to mid limits. But when you feel the need to learn the game properly, read Stox.

[vmacosta]

All, in general my feelings are:

Stox presented a tight and disciplined approach based on years of experience and nearly 1 million hands.

Borer and Mak presented a looser, more advanced strategy that pushes more small edge. I agree it was presented in a less thorough and more speculative (and contained plenty of errors) manner.

That's why I think Stox's book is a good precursor to Borer and Mak's. Stox lays out a conservative groundwork and this level of understanding is necessary to filter out the garbage and pull out the golden nuggets in Borer and Mak's book.

[Cactus Jack]

What golden nuggets?

[YertleTurtle]

Stox's hand ranges are based on a more disciplined approach to the game. I wouldn't call his recommendations particularly tight as you will approach the 30/20 game that is recommended here on 2+2 (maybe 28/19 if you only play 6-handed). In my opinion and as pointed out by nomdeplume the essence of mid-stake play and higher is blind stealing and defense. This is loosely covered in the D&B book. Also if you actually crunch the hand ranges recommended in both books they work out to within a percentage point in terms of VPIP. (I'm a big enough dork to have done this).

YT

[pippetto]

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I can understand that some people may prefer the style of the D&B book to the Stox book, but that's quite different to saying it's a better book.

IMO it's the other way around. If you are new to six max online then I'd suggest getting the borer book first. It's a good book. I'm sure it will help to turn losers into winning players at the low to mid limits. But when you feel the need to learn the game properly, read Stox.

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[6471849653]

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I don't know of anyone yet who has read this book that wasn't highly impressed by it.

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Isn't that a bit early to say? And why are you so Positive about that? You get some money because of it or what? Mr. Ad Man.