What is a "normal downswing"

[Bigp1612]

I recently moved up to 50nl, but I lost about 5 buyins after being up 5 or so and moved back down to 25nl. I proceeded to spew another 3 or 4 there. I haven't really experienced a swing like this yet and I was just wondering what most of you consider a typical downswing due to mostly variance and some poor play as well. I'd also like to post 2 or 3 hands where i lost the most for u guys to look at. I tried to make results in white, hopefully it worked.

On this hand, after reviewing I don't like my call on the flop and preflop could be argued as well. Villain is 18/12/7.
Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $26.60
UTG: $24.30
MP: $24.85
Hero (CO): $29.70
BTN: $25.95
SB: $26.20

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $3.35</font>, Hero calls $2.35

Flop: ($6.80) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($14.80) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $22.35 and is All-In</font>, BB calls $11.25 and is All-In

River: ($53.30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $53.30 Pot ($2.65 Rake)
BB showed K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Kings) and WON $50.65 (+$24.05 NET)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Jacks) and LOST (-$26.60 NET) <font color="white"> </font>

This hand really baffles me. I thought I played it well, I don't know how in the world this donk calls me.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $50
Hero (MP): $48.50
CO: $42.30
BTN: $113.50
SB: $46.30
BB: $91.35

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $2</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, CO calls $6

Turn: ($20.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $14</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $28</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $38.50 and is All-In</font>, CO calls $4.30 and is All-In

River: ($85.35) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $85.35 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Ace Queen high) and LOST (-$42.30 NET)
CO showed 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Fours) and WON $82.35 (+$40.05 NET) <font color="white"> </font>

Here is another hand where I have pockets jacks and probably am too passive to know where i stand. I have been getting check-raised a tooonnnn so i figured i'd control the pot size rather than have to fold. Maybe a bad idea...lol

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (MP): $56.60
CO: $32
BTN: $25
SB: $62.75
BB: $64.90
UTG: $24.75

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $0.85</font>, Hero calls $0.85, CO folds, BTN calls $0.85, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.90) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $2.90</font>, BTN folds, UTG calls $2.90

Turn: ($8.70) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $2.50</font>, Hero calls $2.50

River: ($13.70) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $5.25</font>, Hero calls $5.25

Results: $24.20 Pot ($1.20 Rake)
Hero mucked J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Jacks) and LOST (-$11.50 NET)
UTG showed A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Aces) and WON $23 (+$11.50 NET)


<font color="white"> </font> <font color="white"> </font>

[whyzze]

hand 1. You should just call the turn imo. You have a gutshot and your pair is behind alot of his range for betting this turn. if he shoves river, I think you can fold, I didn't look at stack sizes though.

hand 2. I dont understand why you didn't just lead the flop.

hand 3. you should 3bet preflop alot. flop is ok. turn you should raise. and river is a call. It really looks like he is trying to pot control you with a 9 though.

About downswings. My average downswing is about 8 BIs, thats probably higher than alot of people here. I have some tilt issues and I play 9 tables. They happen at least once a month id say.

[Profish2285]

Hand 1: I would fold on the turn normally.

Hand 2: Honestly, I dont know why you went for the c/r here. Just c-bet it like you normally would. I think the c/r here looks fairly bluffy. I guess after you c/r you have to fire again but I hate the way you played it.

Hand 3: I 3 bet preflop almost always because I really dont want to take this hand multiway. If I cold call with jacks pf its usually from the button. I do this also because its how I would normally play a suited connector, so gotta add some balance. As played, I probably call down like you did just because villains bets are so tiny.

[Sniiii]

Hand 1: ...? Happens.
Hand 2: Turn is horrible. How you can push there is beyond me.
Hand 3: I 3bet PF. Flop is ok. Raise turn. River good.

[ QUOTE ]
My average downswing is about 8 BIs, thats probably higher than alot of people here. I have some tilt issues and I play 9 tables. They happen at least once a month id say.

[/ QUOTE ]

8 BI downswings once every month? You ought to be kidding me.

[Monster207]

h1. on the turn you can call but to me its a fairly easy fold if he fires again on the river.
h2. like they all said, the c/r is not good, cbet and c/c the turn
downswings can be [censored] brutal, especially when you add in tilt into it. I either take a break for awhile or just play less and study the game more.

[latvaniemi]

Well a downswing can last a shi**y long time, better to see over a x amount of hands. If your still - after 10k hands your probably doing something wrong.

Variance is a harsh mistress can easily make you loose alot of buyins in a short amount of time and vice versa.

Hand 1 lay it down maybe on the flop,turn. If you dont have a read 3 bet means jj+ and if he's agro aj+. What do you beat of in thet range that he'll bet on the turn? I would probably lay jj down pf (nitty i know) Since jj is really hard to play 3 betting and so hard to play being 3betted against. But you have to lay it down on the turn, what would he 3bet pf bet both streets that you beat? AT and a bluff? Rather unlikley without a read.

Second hand is trickier, My warning signals would go on when he flatcalls your raise. If i dont improve on the turn i might shut it down or check/shove. But i dont like shoving on the turn cause you often draw dead to your overcards. If im going ai with this hand i want it to be on the flop.

Hand 3 is a tricky one also. But you should raise him on the flop or on the turn to see where you stand. Check calling him down aint that good cause you have no idea what he's holding. Reraise flop and if he comes over the top you might have to consider folding.

On all the hands what handranges did you put your opponent on?

[DaycareInferno]

it doesn't matter how much a typical downswing is. its not like you can get a refund or something if you exceed standard deviation. all that's important is that you can play better, just like i can play better, and everyone that plays can play better. just keep moving in the right direction and don't stagnate, and you'll be fine.

[ssdex]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: ...? Happens.
Hand 2: Turn is horrible. How you can push there is beyond me.
Hand 3: I 3bet PF. Flop is ok. Raise turn. River good.

[ QUOTE ]
My average downswing is about 8 BIs, thats probably higher than alot of people here. I have some tilt issues and I play 9 tables. They happen at least once a month id say.

[/ QUOTE ]

8 BI downswings once every month? You ought to be kidding me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Downswings are perfectly normal----- you are going to have more downswings the more hands you play---- they are inevitable. Normal depends on the limit you play, your winrate, and how many tables you play. I play 50k+ hands a month usually 6-10 tabling. My standard downswing is somewhere between 5-10, though I will usually have at least one that is 10+ every month. I usually don't panic until like 15. Hope this helps, however, when you are experiencing downswings that don't feel normal, you should not lose confidence in your game, rather just evaluate the situations you feel are marginal and ways you can play better in those situations.

[icheckcallu]

[ QUOTE ]
it doesn't matter how much a typical downswing is. its not like you can get a refund or something if you exceed standard deviation. all that's important is that you can play better, just like i can play better, and everyone that plays can play better. just keep moving in the right direction and don't stagnate, and you'll be fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

the thing is you play really bad/tilty right after a big downswing. I say tighten up and until get your confidence back. I usually spew 1-2 extra buyins when I go on a swong.

[AHMWM]

I play NL10 normally between 500-1000 hands a day normally 4-8 tabling. I go on swongs all the time. Usually they are about 4-6 buy-ins but you can't really put a number on what a swong really is. Currently I'm on my biggest upswong and downswong of my poker career. In NL10, I ran up 14 buy-ins in 5 days, down 10 buy-ins in 3 days, and now back up 4.