Iraqi Village Disappears....Where did the People Go? - Page 3

andyfox · #21 07-10-2007, 02:35 PM

Felix said that, based upon Japanese ill-treatment of prisoners of war, that Japan as lucky we didn't kills 10,000,000 civilians. He also said that it was Communist terrorism that won the Vietnam War; in fact, it was precisely terrorism on the part of the U.S. and it's client state that lost the Vietnam War.

I'm much more concerned when my government fails to live up to its principles than when another government or entity does bad things.

NewTeaBag · #22 07-10-2007, 02:55 PM

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Felix said that, based upon Japanese ill-treatment of prisoners of war, that Japan as lucky we didn't kills 10,000,000 civilians.

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OK Clearly this is extreme and deserving of response.

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He also said that it was Communist terrorism that won the Vietnam War; in fact, it was precisely terrorism on the part of the U.S. and it's client state that lost the Vietnam War.

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Hopefully, most can see that both of these positions are extreme and flawed. The Vietnam war was a complex bucket of numerous swirling issues with Viet Cong Terror tactics, and US (or US sponsored) atrocities only 2 important numbers of the many issues.

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I'm much more concerned when my government fails to live up to its principles than when another government or entity does bad things.

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Sure, that's understandable but doesn't absolve other groups from responsibility and, more importantly, public accountability for their atrocities. Hopefully one can see that by only condemning your own government's actions whilst absolving/ignoring/rationalizing others' actions it makes one look just as onesided/tunnel viewed as those one criticizes.

GoodCallYouWin · #23 07-10-2007, 03:25 PM

"He also said that it was Communist terrorism that won the Vietnam War; in fact, it was precisely terrorism on the part of the U.S. and it's client state that lost the Vietnam War."

Invading nations (how can the U.S. not possibly be an aggressor nation in the Vietnam war? You can't defend your country in someone else's country...) never really lose wars, they either tie or win.

Felix_Nietzsche · #24 07-10-2007, 04:26 PM

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Even if all your contentions about America/Japan are true, since some are disputable, how does this justify them killing tens of thousand of innocent civilians?

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Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military centers. These were legitimate targets. Any collateral damage was just part of war using WW2 technology. Using the A-Bomb also sent a message of fear to Japan of what could happen if they failed to surrender. Many argue the A-Bomb persuaded Japan to forgo fighting to the very end saving lives on both sides. Bombing Dresden which had no military value was a true atrocity in my mind. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not. Also leaflets were dropped warning Japan of these attacks.....they could have ordered an evacuation of these cities...

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thought the difference between us and them was that they dont value life but we do?

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I don't accept this premise. I would say some societies hold life cheaper than others but all value life. Besides, not all life is equal. I see nothing wrong with killing evil people (child molesters, murderers, islamo-fascist, etc..) Some life not only has no value....it has negative value and snuffing out these lives makes the world a better place...

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Is Osama bin Laden justified in killing American civilians for US persecution and meddling within the Arabian peninsula?

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I don't know what persecution you speak of. As for meddling in the Arabian penninsula, again I'm not sure what you speak of. US troops were invited onto Saudi soil by the Saudi/Kuwait governments and OBL objected to this. OBL should have taken his beefs up with his govt....not the USA that was invited as an ally and guest to fight Iraq. Also it was the USA which supplied arms the Muslim fighters in Afghan to neutralize the aerial advantages the USSR had over the muslims. Gratitude is not a virtue many Arab muslims seem to possess.

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ill get to some other points after you address this.

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No problem. Gimme your best shot....I'm not Borodog that runs away when someone challenges his beliefs....

bdk3clash · #25 07-10-2007, 04:45 PM

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....I'm not Borodog that runs away when someone challenges his beliefs....

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Irony, thy name is Felix_Nietsche.

Felix_Nietzsche · #26 07-10-2007, 05:47 PM

Actually you made my point....Thanks
This links you provided show me addressing and debating. The Plame link was locked by Iron because we basically were arguing in circles.... I probably addressed you questions a dozen times. You just didn't like my answers....not my problem....

With Borodog, he advocated open borders. I said why I thought his position was silly and he said he was not going to answer my points.

Thanks again for providing evidence I engage others when they challenge my position and not run away.... And yes I still think Fitzfong is a scumbag for indicting Libby and letting Armitage walk with no consequences. Either the law was broken or it was not. Either Fitzfong was a partisan that let Armitage walk ....OR.... Plame did not meet the standards of being a covert agent under the law. And to prevent Iron from locking this thread it would be best to leave this issue alone...

mosdef · #27 07-10-2007, 06:22 PM

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Any collateral damage was just part of war using WW2 technology.

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That doesn't absolve them of responsibility. You say "collateral damage", they say "atrocity". Collateral damage is a bad term. It implies unfortunate but unavoidable happenstance. It is clearly avoidable.

Nielsio · #28 07-10-2007, 07:32 PM

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Sponsoring dictatorships/insurgences:
Nothing wrong with this. Sometimes you must choose between the lesser of two evils. If we can topple an evil regime and replace it with a less evil regime, then the world becomes a better place.

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wow

owsley · #29 07-10-2007, 08:13 PM

so what if the japanese developed the bomb before us, would they have been justified in using it? why or why not?

Felix_Nietzsche · #30 07-10-2007, 08:41 PM

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so what if the japanese developed the bomb before us, would they have been justified in using it? why or why not?

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I'm not sure what you mean by "justified".
But knowing:
1. The USA was working on an a-bomb as well and
2. The USA had access to more uranium they had and
3. Japan's entire strategy revolved around achieving a negotiated peace with the USA.....

It would have been irrational for Japan to initiate the use of the a-bomb. It would have been better to use the a-bomb as a deterrant to keep the USA from using the a-bomb on them... But then it was irrational for Japan to execute American prisoners because it installed great hatred and made a negotiated peace impossible...