Going after the running bad

SA125 · #1 11-21-2006, 11:38 PM

Full live 15-30 villain in this hand is loose but not dumb, plays pretty good but stuck about $1K and feeling like life is against him right now.

He opens in the CO and isn't stealing with crap. His range is 77+, decent A's and paint. I call on the button with 88. Laggy BB calls.

My plan is to let CO keep the lead and then attack post flop regardless. Villain's image of me is taggish.

Flop Q 9 x r. BB ch's, CO bets, I raise, BB folds, CO reaches back easily for chips and calls. He'd 3 bet a big hand here.

Turn A. CO ch's I bet.

Do some coldcall with same plan here sometimes or always 3 bet pf and take the lead?

MitchL · #2 11-21-2006, 11:55 PM

I take the lead with a hand like 88 and 3 bet. I dont want villain having the lead in a hand where a great many flops are troublesome.

SA125 · #3 11-22-2006, 02:37 AM

Villain folded JJ face up. Obvious question was pf. When I plan to take on someone regardless of the flop, I don't think 3 betting is mandatory.

Many times they put me on AK and are less likely to fold to a Q high flop with JJ. Here I coldcalled and represented AQ-KQ-99 with a flop raise.

Not saying it's the best line, just that coldcalling and letting them keep the lead can add deception to my play. Like I made your hand on the flop.

surfdoc · #4 11-22-2006, 02:38 AM

I want to play this against a big field or a small one. Letting the big blind see a flop with QT here is criminal.

jfk · #5 11-22-2006, 03:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I want to play this against a big field or a small one. Letting the big blind see a flop with QT here is criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second this. It appears that you have very good control over the guy running badly. Letting the blinds in with god knows what doens't make for an easy path with medium pairs.

Your purpose is to hammer on one player here and you're afforded the opportunity to do so preflop. Not doing so introduces a lot of variables among players over whom you may not have the same sway.

surfdoc · #6 11-22-2006, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here I coldcalled and represented AQ-KQ-99 with a flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to mention that I think this makes no sense. Unless this guy is a super nit, his range has to be fairly wide from the cutoff. I don't understand why you think raising this flop would represent any of these hands. You should be 3 betting all of those hands preflop. If the guy is playing scared weak tight running bad poker he will still muck his jacks face up on the turn fearing you have AA-QQ, AQ, KQ, or whatever.

In other words, if you want to float a guy that you think is weak and blow him off his hand, do it with 89s. When you have big hands there is no need to get fancy and let the blinds gain a piece of your equity.

Jeffage · #7 11-22-2006, 06:16 PM

No clue why you didn't three bet preflop when villain opens in a steal spot - why do you want the blinds in again? Three betting also allows you to rep many hands you don't have postflop.

As played, I guess it's ok, particularly if his "world against him" feeling would make him lay down something like JJ. Obv, this is the last bet you're putting in the pot.

I think just calling preflop is a big error.

Jeff

SA125 · #8 11-22-2006, 07:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think just calling preflop is a big error.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's weird Jeff. I know the drill is 3 bet, shut blinds out, yada. No arguement about it.

But I've found that the dynamic changes sometimes with regards to how some villains will play a hand post flop when they're running bad.

Sometimes with them in the lead getting raised they're more likely to think they've been run down. As oppossed to them thinking they may or may not be behind to the pf raiser.

It may be a major error letting the blinds in, as pointed out. As it played, the BB had K9 and he folded the flop. He would've been shut out by the 3 bet pf, which justifies the 3 bet.

Like I said, I'm not changing the wheel here. Just pointing out something I've seen about villains mind set when running bad and taking advantage of it. The point about letting the blinds in and messing it all up has merit though, no doubt.

imashyboi · #9 11-24-2006, 10:41 AM

I would rather reraise with 88 than call. If you're trying to keep it HU with villian no point on just calling. Calling will be giving BB too much odds to call for 1 more.

danzasmack · #10 11-24-2006, 10:59 AM

SA125,

I see why you just called and I think it has merit. This guy is on life tilt as we speak and I think just calling here and showing strength postflop will get him to lay down a hand a lot more often than 3-betting pf will. I feel like he chases you to the river when you 3-bet a lot so we have to "fire more barrels" in a way.

If you agree with this you really have to weigh how much more often you will win this pot with this play vs. how often the BB will stay in and 3-betting would be better. If he is folding 2nd pair here for 2 cold I think, results oriented, your play was good here, but nonetheless very situational.