$25 PL - call this river bet?

[Alchemist]

I've played lots of limit O8 but I'm still a novice at PL. BB has seemed like a decent player so far. SB is very bad and makes some really terrible calls.


Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Seat 1: UTG ($14.80)
Seat 2: Hero ($31.50)
Seat 3: Button ($22.65)
Seat 5: SB ($8.70)
Seat 6: BB ($54.50)

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.75, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $0.75</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1.5</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($7.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $7.5</font>, Hero ?

edited to show stack sizes

[beernutz]

I crying call and hope SB calls with a worse hand to pay us both off.

[GaZaZaZa]

against just the decent player, with the rivered double second nuts this would be a MUST make crying calling, with the terrible small blind left behind, and especially since a low option has come in, this is a MUST MUST call,,, and you'll at worst (99% of the time) get at least have the pot, and on the odd occasion you'll find yourself scooping or 3/4ering. This is a great position to be in, call and smile at the decentish profits to be made!!!

[Heron]

I don't think that BB has you beat both ways because he only checked the turn and it's unusual to do this with nut flush draw plus nut low draw. The presence of the bad player with a stack smaller than the bet to call should make this call easy.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that BB has you beat both ways because he only checked the turn and it's unusual to do this with nut flush draw plus nut low draw. The presence of the bad player with a stack smaller than the bet to call should make this call easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the bad SB tip the decision to an easy call? What if I was HU with the BB? The way I see it, the BB must be betting with the nuts in at least one direction. So I'm in effect putting in $7.50 to win $3.75 at best.

Anyone prefer a PSB on the Turn?

[GaZaZaZa]

YES in my opinion, and let it be know i am still fairly new to this game, the SMALL BLIND FISH tips it to an easy must call... on the turn i think your bet is correct, cause mainly if you do get re-raised it will really suck, leaving you with a tough decision to make, which you should try to avoid getting into those spots. If you are heads up with BB, i still think its a call, but it is much more marginal there. My reasoning is that its not all that likly that you are beaten both ways, and i think you will scoop almost (while prob not as much) but almost as much as u will be scooped, and given the money already in the pot, that makes this a call nonetheless

[texnewb]

I'm putting BB on Ax[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]'s when considering this, but an A2 who thinks they have fold equity might try to take the pot down here also. But yeah, I probably assume BB has the A-high flush, so then the question becomes
a) was SB betting A2 on the flop and slow down when his lo didn't come out?
b) does BB have the flush + A2?

It's pretty tricky. I think from the outset you're playing for 1/2 the pot if you read BB as an ok player, and some of those times that make up 50% BB will have A2 + a flush, SB will have A2 and call behind you, or (basically almost never), BB will have A2 and SB has backed into the nut flush. This makes me wonder if the call might be a losing one, long term.
Still, I don't think it's a huge mistake if you do call, nor is it probably a huge mistake if you do fold.
For me, I consider that I am up for the session ($4) even if I fold here, and fold. I know my rationale has no mathematical reasoning behind it, but only a psychological one, but I find for me as a new player it does have value. I would be willing to miss out on this pot and expect to keep playing well against (hopefully) inferior opponents.

Does anyone think SBs and BBs range are wider than I think and that this call could be +ev long term, rather than break-even at best?

[Heron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that BB has you beat both ways because he only checked the turn and it's unusual to do this with nut flush draw plus nut low draw. The presence of the bad player with a stack smaller than the bet to call should make this call easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the bad SB tip the decision to an easy call? What if I was HU with the BB? The way I see it, the BB must be betting with the nuts in at least one direction. So I'm in effect putting in $7.50 to win $3.75 at best.

Anyone prefer a PSB on the Turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call HU expecting to win half the pot at least 75% of the time and I also call without effort when SB is a decent player as long as his stack is too short to start a new betting round.

The decision is more difficult when SB has a deep stack. I'm not sure about the right play, but here's what I would do: I call and when SB raises and BB only calls I call again because SB is bad. When BB raises I fold.

All these calls may be marginal at best, but if you avoid those calls on a regular basis, some opponents will begin to dance on your nose sooner or later.