For Americans: Does it embarrass you that George Bush is President?

[NhlNut]

Note: Y'all post way too fast!

[katyseagull]

Hey that's actually very good. You should become a speech writer!

[ChipWrecked]

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Like any married man (other than lostsoul)

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Lol, if only Bill would write up some killer TR's for BBV4Lyfe.

[DrewDevil]

Well, with regard to the specific allegations re: Monica Lewinsky, he certainly should have just refused to comment instead of angrily denying everything and wagging his finger at the camera.

But you have to remember that this came in the context of the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit. What came across loud and clear through all of this was that Mr. Clinton has been an unabashed sexual predator his entire political career.

Take a moment and read about Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broaddick, and the other women who have come forward to accuse Mr. Clinton of egregious behavior toward them. It's obvious that Mr. Clinton had no qualms about using his power, his office, or any other method to try to bed as many women as possible, including a number of women who were his direct subordinates.

The most amazing thing to me about the entire scandal was how feminists and the "women's movement" completely dismissed all these claims and supported Mr. Clinton, when the accusations against him were infinitely worse than anything Clarence Thomas, or Robert Packwood, or any number of Republicans had been accused of doing. I understood then once and for all that for a lot of organizations, politics is far more important than the issues they speak so passionately about.

Anyway, it was just a sordid, ugly mess and I was embarrassed at having a President who acted that way.

[4_2_it]

I think the reason Clinton gets so much hate is that he only won 43% of the popular vote in 1992. He got close to 50% when he was re-elected. (Bush didn't 50% in either of his victories.)

You have to go back to Reagan winning 1984 with close to 59% of the popular vote to find a President supported by a solid majority of the country.

[katyseagull]

Putting on my mod hat for a second here...

Can I ask that people try really hard not to insult each other and not circumvent the profanity filter? There's just no call for it. Let's use common sense. We're adults here. We don't need to use really graphic language to get our point across. Thanks guys.




(oops, I wasn't directing that at you ChipWrecked! sorry if it looked that way! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )

[ChipWrecked]

Politics engenders really graphic language. At least in bars.


j/k Katy [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[DrewDevil]

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Exactly. But it's this kind of thing that is running American politics these days, and, by extension ... everybody else's.

This is a slam-dunk for the knee-jerk, Morals Matter Most types. And those guys VOTE.

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You see, this is the kind of simplistic dismissal that I really hate.

Are you saying that there was [/b]nothing wrong[/b] with Mr. Clinton getting a BJ from a young, impressionable intern who was not his wife? Absolutely nothing?

Yes, there are things that are far worse, and yes, it's not the end of the world, but I don't understand how people completely dismiss flagrant adultery by the President.

What I hear most often is: it didn't affect the job he did as President. ORLY? How do you know? He got his knob polished while talking on the phone to other heads of state, no pun intended. And that's just the stuff we know about.

And even if you think there was absolutely nothing wrong with Mr. Clinton's affair, do you really not see how deplorable Mr. Clinton's conduct was in the months that followed? He repeatedly lied and obstructed justice in the course of the investigation, trotted out all the members of his cabinet and inner circle to lie for him, and let his personal secretary Betty Currie roast over the coals instead of taking any responsibility for what happened.

I'm sure that the special prosecutor was overzealous, etc. as well, but Mr. Clinton's conduct throughout this whole ordeal was appalling.

And embarrassing.

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You know what I hate, is people using their disagreement with you as an excuse to call your point of view simplistic. Frankly I think it sucks gigantically, is weak, and shows a bad conscience.

I don't give a sh*t where people put their dicks and I don't think it's any of my business or yours. Whether they are presidents or not means less than nothing.

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Are you arguing that this is not a simplistic argument?

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In the same way I don't care about whether J-Lo is wearing a new hairstyle, I really don't care about the private lives of all other public figures and I think it's pretty creepy that others do.

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I happen to agree with this, but Mr. Clinton brought all of this on himself.

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I also think it's an inane excuse to hide behind when the truth is that it's just being used as an excuse for an attack that would have come anyway over anything else possible. We have an attack culture that tries to pretend it's something else, and I don't care for it.

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Can you explain, then, why there has not been a presidential sex scandal for Mr. Bush 43, Mr. Bush 41, Jimmy Carter...??

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Further, Monica was about the last thing possible from innocent, and it was hardly rape. This is the kind of exaggeration and story-telling I despise.

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Please point out where I said Monica was innocent or that she was raped.

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I also can't stand the idiotic storytelling mode that suggests that a man should actually talk to the public freely about what he does with his dork. The public's right to know is ZERO, and it has no effect on his office unless one wants to simply scream out that it does. The man can go to work in the morning after getting his [deleted]. People do it all the time. When he does, I sure as sh*t don't want to hear about it, and I think it's grotesque that anybody else would. It's pretty much a 100% guarantee that anyone criticizing Bill for not telling people all the particulars immediately about how his [deleted] wouldn't tell anyone about it if it happened to them, either, because that would make them a moron. I'm glad we didn't have a moron for president -- unlike now.

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I agree with this for the most part. But while I do agree that the president's sex life is nobody's business, I don't agree that that makes it okay to lie about it, especially in the context of a sexual harassment lawsuit.

And I repeat my amazement that you and so many people seem to think there is NOTHING wrong with Mr. Clinton's aggressive, predator-style sexual conduct toward young subordinates he is not married to. Just because it is not our business does not mean there is nothing wrong with it.

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I'm revolted that Americans spent enormous amounts of money, time, and public attention on something that is none of their business, and think it shows many of them for the disingenuous scoundrels they are.

We even now?

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Again, the Lewinsky scandal arose in the context of the Paula Jones lawsuit, and Mr. Clinton's conduct involved lying under oath and encouraging or allowing others to do the same.

If Mr. Clinton's Lewinsky affair had not arisen in the context of the lawsuit---and if Mr. Clinton had not repeatedly lied and lied until confronted with the DNA on the dress---the scandal would never have reached the proportions that it did.

I realize we are poles apart on this issue, but do you refuse to admit that Mr. Clinton did anything wrong during the entire ordeal?

[Shadowrun]

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Hey that's actually very good. You should become a speech writer!

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Thank you katy, maybe Borodog and his wife will put in a good word for me.

[diebitter]

okay thread is now about Bill Clinton's dick, and derailed. Locked.